Flight delay UK261 compensation query

acarter1970

Hi,

My flight from Brazil to UK (via Amsterdam) with KLM was rescheduled, to leave eight hours earlier. 

Airline did not tell me about this until a week beforehand, even though the chance occurred a month previously. System error.

Flight that was rescheduled was the one going to Amsterdam.

DO I have the right to claim compensation for the delayed flight?

Voyager2002

If your departure is earlier, that is not a delay. So delay compensation is not applicable.

If a different departure would be more convenient, contact the airline to discuss rebooking. You do not have to accept the change that they have proposed.

El_Torro

You can certainly ask, though since they told you a week before I don't think they have to give you anything. 

You should have had the option to cancel the flight and get a refund when they informed you of the change. I appreciate though that rebooking an alternative flight 1 week before you fly is not a great option. 

acarter1970

Voyager2002 said:

If your departure is earlier, that is not a delay. So delay compensation is not applicable.

If a different departure would be more convenient, contact the airline to discuss rebooking. You do not have to accept the change that they have proposed.

And if it was rescheduled to leave six hours later?

eskbanker

My understanding is that this EU case determined that bringing flight times forward should be treated in the same way as delays, in the context of the inconvenience to passengers, so ought to apply here (the EU version of the legislation applies to this routing, as well as UK261*):

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX:62020CJ0146

However, compensation entitlement is likely to depend on the actual reason for the rescheduling - if it had been notified a month in advance then there'd be no compensation due, but only a week brings it into play.

* Edit: on reflection, I don't think the EU regulations do apply to a journey both starting and finishing outside the EU (despite transiting through it), and the above legal judgment was post-Brexit so doesn't automatically apply to the UK regs, which could cause complications if citing it, although an EU airline is likely to be familiar with the case....

Alan_Bowen

KLM are well known to have denied claims from outside the EU and terminating outside the EU, I am not aware of any such cases having been determined by UK courts but the EU has certainly confirmed there is no liability in such circumstances

acarter1970

Alan_Bowen said:

KLM are well known to have denied claims from outside the EU and terminating outside the EU, I am not aware of any such cases having been determined by UK courts but the EU has certainly confirmed there is no liability in such circumstances

When did UK confirm such?

jimi_man

There aren’t really enough details in the post to say definitively whether it’s due compensation. However some general points. 

UK261 does cover the case of Azurair whereby an earlier flight of more than one hour is to be treated as a cancellation. So the OPs flight would appear to be in scope for compensation as it’s a flight (connecting) to the U.K. by an EU airline. The OP doesn’t provide any details on the exact timings of the relevant flights though so it’s hard to say. 

The difficulty here is the exact timings of when the changes took place. If it was a month before then nothing is due. If it was a week before then that’s a different story. So some clarity needs to be established on that. 

One final point. With EU airlines, many claims fail because they say that EC261 doesn’t cover flights from third countries to the U.K - which is correct. However the U.K. equivalent (colloquially known as UK261) does and this needs to be made clear if a claim is made. Do not mention EC261. 

eskbanker

jimi_man said:

UK261 does cover the case of Azurair whereby an earlier flight of more than one hour is to be treated as a cancellation.

Could you clarify what you mean by that please - my understanding was that, as a post-Brexit EU judgment, it's not binding on UK courts, but has it been formally adopted here in any meaningful sense?

jimi_man said:

The difficulty here is the exact timings of when the changes took place. If it was a month before then nothing is due. If it was a week before then that’s a different story. So some clarity needs to be established on that.

But as far as the regulations are concerned, compensation entitlement is driven by when passengers were informed of a change, rather than when the change was actually planned/decided, and "the burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier", so if OP has evidence of being notified only a week in advance because of a 'system error' (at the airline's end) then that should pass the test.

jimi_man said:

One final point. With EU airlines, many claims fail because they say that EC261 doesn’t cover flights from third countries to the U.K - which is correct. However the U.K. equivalent (colloquially known as UK261) does and this needs to be made clear if a claim is made. Do not mention EC261. 

To be fair, OP only referred to UK261 (in the thread title) and I muddied the water a bit by mentioning the EU equivalent before correcting myself to reflect the fact that it isn't applicable here, for the same reason you state!