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snowqueen555

Hi,

I'm in the middle of buying a flat, and the second visit all went 

Emmia

snowqueen555 said:

Hi,

I'm in the middle of buying a flat, and the second visit all went well apart from the strong smell of cigarette smoke in the communal hallway. It is very small and it's all fire doors, so very little ventilation. I had hoped it was a one off thing, but since it's both visits it must be a constant issue. I also noticed that the floor the flat in on has large no smoking signs where the ground the 1st floor do not, so it must be an issue here someone has complained about before (only 4 flats on my floor). The windows in the communal hallway were open and it still smelt terrible.

Fortunately the smell does not seem to get into the flat, but it is very strong when I leave and enter the flat. Is this a dealbreaker, or is there anything I can do that might mitigate this before I buy i.e. raise the issue to the management company, or even it having an affect on the price? My main issue is my family coming over, it's not nice to have kids exposed to that, so the price isn't the issue here.

Thanks

You'd need to identify which flat it's coming from - but tbh it's not a crime to smoke in your own flat/property so not much you can do really...

youth_leader

So very sorry to read this, what a great shame, I don't think you can continue the purchase and be happy?  You will want to find out who it is breaking the rules and start off with an unpleasant relationship with the neighbour who is smoking.  

Emmia

snowqueen555 said:

Emmia said:

You'd need to identify which flat it's coming from - but tbh it's not a crime to smoke in your own flat/property so not much you can do really...

I'm aware it's not a crime, but I was wondering

1) Can the leasehold for the building prohibit smoking inside someone's flat,
2) If it's a rented property, is it possible the tenancy agreement prohibits it?
3) A smoker should have a duty for smoke smell to stay contained in their own flat? 

End of the day I will not be able to solve the issue at this moment, it's whether it is enough of a dealbreaker to not buy the flat. I've been looking for such a long time so this is a major downer.

I'll be astonished if the lease prohibits smoking in a private flat, similarly I'm not really sure if landlords can feasibly ban smoking by tenants.

If the smell in the communal area seriously bothers you,  I suggest you don't purchase.

Bigphil1474

It could well be that someone is smoking in the communal area, which the management company should be dealing with as it's illegal. I'd say it's unlikely that a strong cigarette smell is coming from inside the property based on the picture of the setup I've got in my head. People don't usually smoke right next to their door in flats so I'm thinking it's unlikely to end up causing the communal area to smell so much.

Either way, unless the landlord of the flat is particularly anti smoking, can't see them prohibiting smoking in the flat. Whatever you think of smoking, the risk to you from the smell from someone having smoked there earlier in the day are 0 or virtually 0. Second hand smoke is a slow killer, but the smell isn't gonna do you any harm. It might just be unpleasant for you.

Just a thought, but maybe the seller is smoking in the hallway so they don't make the flat smell of smoke? In which case, if you buy the flat, there'd be no smoking anyway?

gwynlas

If the smell bothers you on each visit then do not buy the flat as you will be exposed to it everyday.

If it doesn't bother you too much you could install air fresherers to mask the smell, but obviously you will still be aware of it.

Children being exposed to it on occasional visits are  unlikely to suffer harm/

WIAWSNB

SQueen, do you know if the smell is coming from a flat, or is the person smoking in the communal area?

Either way, it's hellish!

But, if the person goes into the communal area to light up, then I'd have thought it very likely that the Freeholder could counter this. Worth asking?

If the smell is just oozing out into the hall, then could a plug-in freshener be fitted to counter it? Galling to have to do this, but just a thought.

Emmia

snowqueen555 said:

WIAWSNB said:

SQueen, do you know if the smell is coming from a flat, or is the person smoking in the communal area?

Either way, it's hellish!

But, if the person goes into the communal area to light up, then I'd have thought it very likely that the Freeholder could counter this. Worth asking?

If the smell is just oozing out into the hall, then could a plug-in freshener be fitted to counter it? Galling to have to do this, but just a thought.

That's a good question, I assumed it was leaking out from a flat because the doors to the flat do have a noticeable gaps on the bottom. There is also outside our small hallway (with doors to just 3 flats) in the staircase but a different sort of mixed smoke smell. But I'm wondering if I can live with it as the smell (as far as I can tell) did not enter my flat when i viewed it.

gwynlas said:

If the smell bothers you on each visit then do not buy the flat as you will be exposed to it everyday.

It is frustrating because if I have been looking for nearly two years and found the place that is in a decent location, large and a good price, So measuring up if this is a dealbreaker is difficult.

If there are gaps at the bottom of the entrance doors to the individual flats, those doors are probably failing the relevant fire regs, you may (if you proceed) wish to budget for a new FD30 fire door which is a tight fit.

DullGreyGuy

Emmia said:

snowqueen555 said:

WIAWSNB said:

SQueen, do you know if the smell is coming from a flat, or is the person smoking in the communal area?

Either way, it's hellish!

But, if the person goes into the communal area to light up, then I'd have thought it very likely that the Freeholder could counter this. Worth asking?

If the smell is just oozing out into the hall, then could a plug-in freshener be fitted to counter it? Galling to have to do this, but just a thought.

That's a good question, I assumed it was leaking out from a flat because the doors to the flat do have a noticeable gaps on the bottom. There is also outside our small hallway (with doors to just 3 flats) in the staircase but a different sort of mixed smoke smell. But I'm wondering if I can live with it as the smell (as far as I can tell) did not enter my flat when i viewed it.

gwynlas said:

If the smell bothers you on each visit then do not buy the flat as you will be exposed to it everyday.

It is frustrating because if I have been looking for nearly two years and found the place that is in a decent location, large and a good price, So measuring up if this is a dealbreaker is difficult.

If there are gaps at the bottom of the entrance doors to the individual flats, those doors are probably failing the relevant fire regs, you may (if you proceed) wish to budget for a new FD30 fire door which is a tight fit.

Though that wouldnt solve their problem given they say their potential flat doesnt smell of smoke but the communal hallway does... or are you suggesting that they buy their smoking neighbour a new front door?


Personally, would only proceed if you are accepting the smell of smoke will continue. Our MA is very selective over who's complaints they deal with (mainly one crazy tenant who is a pain to everyone) and if anyone else complains about things then they get a quote for how much enforcement action will take and asked if they want to continue with it or not. 

It may be possible if you buy it that you do work out the cause and find a solution that maybe lessens it if not removes it but you also might not hence assume the current condition prevails (and may even be worse at different times.

WIAWSNB

snowqueen555 said:

gwynlas said:

If the smell bothers you on each visit then do not buy the flat as you will be exposed to it everyday.

It is frustrating because I have been looking for nearly two years and found the place that is in a decent location, large and a good price, So measuring up if this is a dealbreaker is difficult.

You will never know who your neighbours will be, whether they smoke, are otherwise antisocial, and - of course - neighbours change all the while.

At least you are aware of this issue, and can make a judgement on how important it is for you. Also, there are hopefully some mitigating actions that can be taken.

Worse would be moving into the perfect home, and then a bunch of potheads move in next door

Emmia

snowqueen555 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Emmia said:

snowqueen555 said:

WIAWSNB said:

SQueen, do you know if the smell is coming from a flat, or is the person smoking in the communal area?

Either way, it's hellish!

But, if the person goes into the communal area to light up, then I'd have thought it very likely that the Freeholder could counter this. Worth asking?

If the smell is just oozing out into the hall, then could a plug-in freshener be fitted to counter it? Galling to have to do this, but just a thought.

That's a good question, I assumed it was leaking out from a flat because the doors to the flat do have a noticeable gaps on the bottom. There is also outside our small hallway (with doors to just 3 flats) in the staircase but a different sort of mixed smoke smell. But I'm wondering if I can live with it as the smell (as far as I can tell) did not enter my flat when i viewed it.

gwynlas said:

If the smell bothers you on each visit then do not buy the flat as you will be exposed to it everyday.

It is frustrating because if I have been looking for nearly two years and found the place that is in a decent location, large and a good price, So measuring up if this is a dealbreaker is difficult.

If there are gaps at the bottom of the entrance doors to the individual flats, those doors are probably failing the relevant fire regs, you may (if you proceed) wish to budget for a new FD30 fire door which is a tight fit.

Though that wouldnt solve their problem given they say their potential flat doesnt smell of smoke but the communal hallway does... or are you suggesting that they buy their smoking neighbour a new front door?


Personally, would only proceed if you are accepting the smell of smoke will continue. Our MA is very selective over who's complaints they deal with (mainly one crazy tenant who is a pain to everyone) and if anyone else complains about things then they get a quote for how much enforcement action will take and asked if they want to continue with it or not. 

It may be possible if you buy it that you do work out the cause and find a solution that maybe lessens it if not removes it but you also might not hence assume the current condition prevails (and may even be worse at different times.

I think what Emma is saying is that under fire regulations the management company should be ensuring the doors to all flats meet the criteria, so it would not be directly charged to myself, but I imagine they would charge all the leaseholders I guess.

Honestly, I'd have no problem paying for a draught excluder if it helps, this is all up in the air of course. I am worried but thinking I may be able to mitigate any smoking smell or find a solution after I've moved in.

I am waiting on a response from the vendor and their response as they must be aware of this problem.

If you're buying the flat and will become the leaseholder, you'll be responsible for the cost of a new front door (or modifications to make the existing door compliant) - but that new door should pretty much seal your flat from hallway "aromas".

You'll either need to buy the door/modification yourself with appropriate consents from the freeholder, or you'll be paying for the door/modification through your service charge (you're definitely paying by either route, not the freeholder or management company)

Edit: For clarity I'm not referring to draught excluders, but proper sealing strips or a new, tightly fitting flat front door compliant to FD30.