Edit

Eldi_Dos

If it is a small hallway with not much ventilation a battery powered air freshener in that area could mask the smokey smell coming from other flat.Purchase one and leave it outside the flat while you are having your viewing, spin out the viewing and see if the hallway is more agreeable when you come out.
Many public buildings who have to deal with less than fresh clientele use them to make things a bit more pleasant for the staff.

WIAWSNB

snowqueen555 said:

I've been told it is an elderly woman who smokes. In which case the issue may resolve itself before too long.
I am asking for a third viewing, which sounds ridiculous I know. Not at all ridic. I will have a good sniff around. I want to double check the smell does no permeate into the flat.

I'm wondering if it would be rude for me to knock on the neighbours doors and speak with them. The EA won't like it but I'm sure they can't stop me. You could always do this after the EA has left. And, no, it isn't rude to knock on neighbouring doors!

Bits in bold ^

If you introduce yourself to any neighb as a potential buyer, and just ask general things like how they enjoy living here, good and bad points, that sort of stuff, I'm sure they'll be interested, and very keen if they like you. So, be likeable :-)

If this goes well, you can then tactfully ask about the smoking smell you couldn't help but notice when you come in the main hall - is this something that concerns them?

Obvs don't mention smoking if they answer the door with a fag in their hand...

Don't forget, with most property viewings, you won't have a clue what the neighbours are like until you move in. You'll then have the same lottery of good and bad as the rest of us, and they will also change as folk move.

Here, you've just had a heads-up, that's all. That person ain't going to be there forever. Their replacement could be worse...

Emmia

snowqueen555 said:

I was not able to speak to anyone as noone was in. I am hoping to catch someone this weekend, however I keep flip flopping between okay and not okay. The smell didn't seem as bad, but I am concerned about the health implications, especially as it could be leaking into my flat without me knowing, a lot of the harmful components may not necessarily smell.

Googling does not help ease any worries either. Would the smell in the small hallway (3 flats) be enough to put anyone off from buying, having to smell it every time you leave and enter, and possibly leakage into your flat?

It would put me off buying - I'm really sensitive to cigarette smoke. But the problem is that if the people living near you change, you could end up with a new cigarette smell problem, or an existing problem ceasing.

We bought our flat and since new neighbours moved in downstairs, the bathroom in particular gets a whiff of cigarettes - I've tried sealing gaps but I'm not quite sure exactly how the smell is getting into the bathroom specifically 

WIAWSNB

snowqueen555 said:

I was not able to speak to anyone as noone was in. I am hoping to catch someone this weekend, however I keep flip flopping between okay and not okay. The smell didn't seem as bad, but I am concerned about the health implications, especially as it could be leaking into my flat without me knowing, a lot of the harmful components may not necessarily smell.

Googling does not help ease any worries either. Would the smell in the small hallway (3 flats) be enough to put anyone off from buying, having to smell it every time you leave and enter, and possibly leakage into your flat?

Personally, I would not have any health concerns living there as the amount possibly entering the flat would be truly minimal.

Like Emmia, however, I find the smell of ciggie smoke truly repulsive. If I could disguise it in the communal hallway by the use of air fresheners, then I would probably find that acceptable until the elderly miscreant did the right thing. 

I wouldn't be concerned about breathing in a tiny whiff when passing through, just annoyed at the smell of it being imposed on me.

I would also try and contact the FreeHolder of the block, and ask their opinion on whether it's acceptable, and what can be done about it. There might even be something relevant in the Lease regarding 'nuisance' and anti-soc.

If the flat is otherwise superior to others I have viewed, this would not put me off. I would expect it to be a temporary objectionableness, either due to expiry or by action by the FH.

DullGreyGuy

Emmia said:

snowqueen555 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Emmia said:

snowqueen555 said:

WIAWSNB said:

SQueen, do you know if the smell is coming from a flat, or is the person smoking in the communal area?

Either way, it's hellish!

But, if the person goes into the communal area to light up, then I'd have thought it very likely that the Freeholder could counter this. Worth asking?

If the smell is just oozing out into the hall, then could a plug-in freshener be fitted to counter it? Galling to have to do this, but just a thought.

That's a good question, I assumed it was leaking out from a flat because the doors to the flat do have a noticeable gaps on the bottom. There is also outside our small hallway (with doors to just 3 flats) in the staircase but a different sort of mixed smoke smell. But I'm wondering if I can live with it as the smell (as far as I can tell) did not enter my flat when i viewed it.

gwynlas said:

If the smell bothers you on each visit then do not buy the flat as you will be exposed to it everyday.

It is frustrating because if I have been looking for nearly two years and found the place that is in a decent location, large and a good price, So measuring up if this is a dealbreaker is difficult.

If there are gaps at the bottom of the entrance doors to the individual flats, those doors are probably failing the relevant fire regs, you may (if you proceed) wish to budget for a new FD30 fire door which is a tight fit.

Though that wouldnt solve their problem given they say their potential flat doesnt smell of smoke but the communal hallway does... or are you suggesting that they buy their smoking neighbour a new front door?


Personally, would only proceed if you are accepting the smell of smoke will continue. Our MA is very selective over who's complaints they deal with (mainly one crazy tenant who is a pain to everyone) and if anyone else complains about things then they get a quote for how much enforcement action will take and asked if they want to continue with it or not. 

It may be possible if you buy it that you do work out the cause and find a solution that maybe lessens it if not removes it but you also might not hence assume the current condition prevails (and may even be worse at different times.

I think what Emma is saying is that under fire regulations the management company should be ensuring the doors to all flats meet the criteria, so it would not be directly charged to myself, but I imagine they would charge all the leaseholders I guess.

Honestly, I'd have no problem paying for a draught excluder if it helps, this is all up in the air of course. I am worried but thinking I may be able to mitigate any smoking smell or find a solution after I've moved in.

I am waiting on a response from the vendor and their response as they must be aware of this problem.

If you're buying the flat and will become the leaseholder, you'll be responsible for the cost of a new front door (or modifications to make the existing door compliant) - but that new door should pretty much seal your flat from hallway "aromas".

You'll either need to buy the door/modification yourself with appropriate consents from the freeholder, or you'll be paying for the door/modification through your service charge (you're definitely paying by either route, not the freeholder or management company)

Edit: For clarity I'm not referring to draught excluders, but proper sealing strips or a new, tightly fitting flat front door compliant to FD30.

@Emmia your post is confusing over which "front door" you are talking about?

The OP states that the units own front door IS keeping the smell of smoke out of the unit they are considering purchasing but its the communal hallway which smells of smoke from a source unknown. It could be escaping from another flat, it could be someone smoking in the hallway, could be someone smoking outside under a window or vent thats allowing it into the hallway 

So your first paragraph above isnt revenant given "their" door is keeping the smell out. Not sure how you are proposing the source of the smoke is traced or how the OP gets a neighbours door changed if it's identified that the smoke smell is being caused by someone smoking in that flat. 

Emmia

DullGreyGuy said:

Emmia said:

snowqueen555 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Emmia said:

snowqueen555 said:

WIAWSNB said:

SQueen, do you know if the smell is coming from a flat, or is the person smoking in the communal area?

Either way, it's hellish!

But, if the person goes into the communal area to light up, then I'd have thought it very likely that the Freeholder could counter this. Worth asking?

If the smell is just oozing out into the hall, then could a plug-in freshener be fitted to counter it? Galling to have to do this, but just a thought.

That's a good question, I assumed it was leaking out from a flat because the doors to the flat do have a noticeable gaps on the bottom. There is also outside our small hallway (with doors to just 3 flats) in the staircase but a different sort of mixed smoke smell. But I'm wondering if I can live with it as the smell (as far as I can tell) did not enter my flat when i viewed it.

gwynlas said:

If the smell bothers you on each visit then do not buy the flat as you will be exposed to it everyday.

It is frustrating because if I have been looking for nearly two years and found the place that is in a decent location, large and a good price, So measuring up if this is a dealbreaker is difficult.

If there are gaps at the bottom of the entrance doors to the individual flats, those doors are probably failing the relevant fire regs, you may (if you proceed) wish to budget for a new FD30 fire door which is a tight fit.

Though that wouldnt solve their problem given they say their potential flat doesnt smell of smoke but the communal hallway does... or are you suggesting that they buy their smoking neighbour a new front door?


Personally, would only proceed if you are accepting the smell of smoke will continue. Our MA is very selective over who's complaints they deal with (mainly one crazy tenant who is a pain to everyone) and if anyone else complains about things then they get a quote for how much enforcement action will take and asked if they want to continue with it or not. 

It may be possible if you buy it that you do work out the cause and find a solution that maybe lessens it if not removes it but you also might not hence assume the current condition prevails (and may even be worse at different times.

I think what Emma is saying is that under fire regulations the management company should be ensuring the doors to all flats meet the criteria, so it would not be directly charged to myself, but I imagine they would charge all the leaseholders I guess.

Honestly, I'd have no problem paying for a draught excluder if it helps, this is all up in the air of course. I am worried but thinking I may be able to mitigate any smoking smell or find a solution after I've moved in.

I am waiting on a response from the vendor and their response as they must be aware of this problem.

If you're buying the flat and will become the leaseholder, you'll be responsible for the cost of a new front door (or modifications to make the existing door compliant) - but that new door should pretty much seal your flat from hallway "aromas".

You'll either need to buy the door/modification yourself with appropriate consents from the freeholder, or you'll be paying for the door/modification through your service charge (you're definitely paying by either route, not the freeholder or management company)

Edit: For clarity I'm not referring to draught excluders, but proper sealing strips or a new, tightly fitting flat front door compliant to FD30.

@Emmia your post is confusing over which "front door" you are talking about?

The OP states that the units own front door IS keeping the smell of smoke out of the unit they are considering purchasing but its the communal hallway which smells of smoke from a source unknown. It could be escaping from another flat, it could be someone smoking in the hallway, could be someone smoking outside under a window or vent thats allowing it into the hallway 

So your first paragraph above isnt revenant given "their" door is keeping the smell out. Not sure how you are proposing the source of the smoke is traced or how the OP gets a neighbours door changed if it's identified that the smoke smell is being caused by someone smoking in that flat. 

I live in a property with a main front door into the communal hall, and a front door to my own flat (which is internal). My reading is that the property the OP is viewing has a similar arrangement.

 If the smell is coming out of the neighbours flat and seeping into the communal area, then ensuring the front door to the flat the OP is purchasing is suitably snug in the frame will both ensure the door is compliant with fire regs (in terms of gaps) and should help keep the smell out of their flat - this assumes the smell comes in via the front door... It may not, and I have precisely thus problem at the moment as cigarette smells from my downstairs neighbours are permeating into one of my bathrooms (but not both, even though they are adjacent, and not into the other rooms).

I am not proposing the OP replaces the neighbours door, but if the door to the flat being purchased is not snugly fitting, improving that or replacing the door with a better one might help.

WIAWSNB

snowqueen555 said:

WIAWSNB said:

Personally, I would not have any health concerns living there as the amount possibly entering the flat would be truly minimal.

Like Emmia, however, I find the smell of ciggie smoke truly repulsive. If I could disguise it in the communal hallway by the use of air fresheners, then I would probably find that acceptable until the elderly miscreant did the right thing. 

I wouldn't be concerned about breathing in a tiny whiff when passing through, just annoyed at the smell of it being imposed on me.

I would also try and contact the FreeHolder of the block, and ask their opinion on whether it's acceptable, and what can be done about it. There might even be something relevant in the Lease regarding 'nuisance' and anti-soc.

If the flat is otherwise superior to others I have viewed, this would not put me off. I would expect it to be a temporary objectionableness, either due to expiry or by action by the FH.

On the third viewing I calmed myself down but you know how it is, you start Googling and mulling everything over. The smell wasn't as bad this time around, I am sure it was quite a bit worse on the first and second viewings. I am imagining this smell each time I enter and exit. Then you start reading about how the compounds stick to surfaces and continue to release compounds even when the smell is gone.

The comments from the EA are below. My thinking is that this hallway section only covers 3 flats so I am not sure we could get a collective change to policies, and even then I don't know how it would work or could be lying on any matters.

She is an elderly lady and there are rules which prevent smoking in the communal areas hence the signage but nothing that can prevent her from smoking in her own flat.

They have advised that as an owner you would automatically become a member of the management company and as such could become a director. This would then give you the scope to influence to policy with regards negating the smoke smell permeating into the communal areas.

So the Freehold is held by a management company, of which all are directors? That's another plus.
Bottom line is, only you can make this decision.
I would suggest that there is zero tangible health hazard. There is smell, and that's pretty much it.
Air fresheners and 'time' should sort this, imo. 
I wouldn't expect - rely on - the ManCo jumping into action, but you never know.
Your call. 

WIAWSNB

snowqueen555 said:

Just an update, this was a really annoying experience on my behalf, but I have pulled out. This is a shame because the flat was really good value for money, so I won't find anything like that I don't think. But I know myself enough to know the smell would annoy the hell out of me and I also have hypochondriac tendencies. I think over a period of years the affect on my health would not be good, especially from reading advice on websites.

If the EA had notified me on the first viewing the smell was from a neighbour, it would have saved us all time and money. I'm just hoping the solicitor fees aren't too high for the work they've done.

Thank you all for your help and advice.

That is such a shame, but it has to be the decision you are comfortable with.

I think it was clear to readers that you were (overly)concerned about the possible health impact from this positively tiny amount of cigarette smoke, and I'm pleased you have confirmed it in bold above.

I can only reiterate - as someone who loathes the smell of cig smoke - it would not present a health concern to me in this situation at all, as I would be comfortable in my best understanding that it would have no directly detrimental effect on my health whatsoever. Yes, an unpleasant smell - and one I'd wish to address once moved in - but 'health'? No.

However, I suspect that in your case it's the fear or concern about the 'possible' effects that would be too uncomfortable to live with?

Is it not worth pursuing this issue via the Freeholder group? I see nothing at all to be lost by contacting them; you never know, they may be populated by well-intentioned and proactive folk who would be keen to address such an issue - I know that I would in their position.

I was once - a looong time ago - one of 4 directors of a FH management co in my first flat in a beautiful Edwardian house. Would I have pushed to address the effects of one smoker's smell in the communal hallway? Too bludy right.

WIAWSNB

Not worth running it past the management company?
Are you going to explain the reason for pulling out to the EA? Even give them a chance to report back to the seller, and see if they can get a response?

snowqueen555

I've already asked them which was mentioned in a previous post, my suggestion was that flat owners should make reasonable efforts to stop smoke escaping into communal areas or adjoining flats. They can't stop anyone smoking but if I wanted to raise the issue when I buy the house it may be possible to bring something in, but there was no assurances.

The very low service charges suggests to me there isn't much of a management company which is a benefit in some ways, but a negative for situations like these. The answer I had was that each member is part of the MC, but again I haven't received the solicitor paperwork so I have no idea on the structure of it. In fact the seller is supposed to be the secretary and that was their answer given to me by the EA.