Civil enforcement parking ticket at free car park

sensible_chap

Hello,   i have just received  a NOTICE OF DEBT RECOVERY from dcbl ltd (Direct collection Bailiffs ltd) for £170  (UNPAID PARKING CHARGE) for parking in a free car park. 
This is the first notice i have received from them but other letters may have gone to a previous address. Date of alleged offence was 24/02/2025 and the first i have heard about it is 23/04/25. 
My details are correct on my V5 and have been for quite a while although it is possible at the time of alleged offence my old address was still on the V5 (crossover period to new address). 
The alleged offence is "failed to obtain a permit IAW the notified terms) . They qoute POFA and are BPA.   I am led to believe that they needed to notify the driver within 14 days which they clearly have not (its taken them nearly 2 months).  Obviously i cannot appeal now (or can i somehow?), so what should my next move be please guys ?.   Kind regards 

Coupon-mad

it is possible at the time of alleged offence my old address was still on the V5 (crossover period to new address). 

That will be it.

You need to read the NEWBIES FAQS thread 4th post; (the one with the photos of these tedious letters).

Come back when your stage moves to that shown in the SECOND post of the Announcement thread that you read before posting. 

sensible_chap

I am starting to gather evidence and argument points for my defence when the inevitable LBC comes.  Any thoughts on these signs anyone ?  My initial thoughts  are that (top one is on the exit side of a wide 2 lane road, there is no sign on the entrance side ) is that:  A). its partially obscured  . Its on the wrong side (exit side) and anyone would need to look away from their direction of travel to see it C). The tiny print about ANPR is totally obscured D). No mention of any parking charge  E). No mention of any free parking period restrictions (its a free car park for patrons)

The 2nd picture is of one of the signs in the car park  A) Its at 7 feet and very difficult to read  . a lot of them are obscured by foliage.  C). The important bits ie about the charge and instructions for getting a permit are white print on a dark background which is the opposite to what the PPS CoP says it should be (Dark on light). D. The parking charge is in small font when it should be in LARGE FONT

Anything i have missed ? 




 My initial thoughts

Coupon-mad

Yep signage evidence is key to most cases. Have you got a readable close-up for us?

sensible_chap

The data protection one for ANPR is almost totally obscured by the Hotel sign and is on the Exit side of the two lane entry/exit.  The main sign above it is partially obscured by the Hotel sign and is also on the exit side of a two lane entry/exit. (see top pic in earlier post). Thanks for taking a look. 

Coupon-mad

it is possible at the time of alleged offence my old address was still on the V5 (crossover period to new address). 

You could try a complaint to CEL, citing the Joint Code clause about this situation.

sensible_chap

I have tried that (according to the PPS SCoP they should have taken "reasonable endeavours" to check the correspondence address after we did not respond to the first letter (PCN), they should have also checked after each subsequent letter with nil response from us (as should have dcbl who are trying to recover the "debt). This is very clear in the CoP and if they had checked after the nil response to the first letter (PCN) they would have discovered that the DVLA address was updated just a few days after the initial PCN. The occupier of the former address (where they kept sending letters to) was also RTS all their letters with big writing on them "no longer lives at this address, update your records".  They have clearly not followed the CoP and have knowingly continued to send letters to the wrong address (they have the correct address now).  All they say now is "its too late to appeal, contact dcbl.  I have been through the CoP with a fine tooth comb and i think i have found several parts that they clearly do not comply with. 

Coupon-mad

But did you register a complaint (not an appeal)? With a view to then complaining to the BPA about the Code breaches?

sensible_chap

Yes i have, i am currently in a constant cycle of complaining to CE ltd, dcbl, and BPA who have yet to respond.  CE and dcbl just basically say "tough luck its past 28 days etc etc, we do everything IAW law , data protection, POFA compliant blah blah etc etc.  I am pretty sure now that i either put in a wrong digit or put in my daughters Registration who was with us at the time. Had i been given a chance to appeal i could have explained all this to them but they just dont want to listen and expect me to cough up £170 for a free car park !.  Starbucks said that they tried to get the PCN cancelled but CE said it was too late to cancel it.  Which prompted me to see how many failures to comply with the SS SCoP i could find.... i started from the lack of signage at the entrance (there isnt one on the entrance side and the one on the exit is partially obscured and any driver would need to look away from the road to see it on entry,  and i go on from there , poor signage inside the car park, my PCN has one postcode and venue on but i was actually at a different venue with a different postcode, (near to each other but detail is detail). Parking operator must not serve a notice that in its design and/or language deliberately resembles a public authority civil enforcement penalty charge notice.Is this not a flagrant attempt to resemble a civil enforcement penalty charge notice ?   

One of the letters they sent me is of an old template (Non POFA compliant) and cites a £40 add on fee rather than the usual £70 fee.   Its a matter of principal now,  i was a customer of a venue with a free car park.....but CE think they can charge me £170....

Coupon-mad

Totally with you!

sensible_chap

Ok so after much complaining and registering an appeal (well after the 28days) via CELs complaints procedure they have now (even after a final demand from their Debt collector (dcbl) for £170) offered me the chance to pay the original PCN of £60 and given me a POPLA appeal number to use if i so wish.  Do i stick (at £60 and pay it) or twist and continue to try and get them to cancel the PCN ?. Having had a few months to survey the car park properly it (in my opinion ) does not comply with the CoP as there is no sign on the entrance side of entry to the car park, many of the small signs in the car park are obscured by foliage, are not clear and are all at over 7 feet off the ground. 
In addition i have emails from the venue that we attended (starbucks) stating that they requested (after i contacted their CS) that  CEL cancel the PCN (CEL told them it was "too late") but CEL continued to pursue us for the PCN. 
I am fairly certain that we did put our details into the tablet at the venue but may have made a keying error or put in the wrong VRN (different family car), but we were paying customers of the venue attached to the FREE CAR PARK. They should of at the very least given us an opportunity to pay at a reduced rate of £20 for a keying error.
The 2nd letter they sent us is clearly an old template as the paragraph on the bottom is not the usual POFA one and it has different escalation fees on it (£40 instead of £70 that is on the other letters). It also has a cropped photo on it which only shows part of "a" car with no VRN on it. The first 3 letters they sent were all to an old address (i moved house and updated DVLA 7 days after the initial PCN), if they had complied with the CoP (taken reasonable endeavours) then they would have discovered the change of address prior to sending the 2nd letter (and the next 3 letters which is why i missed the original appeal deadline).  the signs in the car park are effectively the opposite of sens serif as they have made all the important points "Light on dark" when the CoP states it should be "Dark on light". I also suspect that the letters are too small and they are really hard to read whilst looking up at them (there are none at car level for disabled people. 

carry on and twist or pay the £60 and be done with it. 

What are my best angles to go to POPLA with please anyone ?   

PSA couple of pics,  one showing the entrance where there is no sign at all and another of the area we parked in showing how obscured the signs are.