Pip/descriptor

pope

My son wears a nappy at night I have to put this on for him as he is unable to I also have to clean him as well as he is unable to clean his self. most nights we have to go through 2 nappies. during the day he also sometimes wears a nappy. But other times wears a special boxer pants supplied by the Incontinence service again which he can't manage.

filling in PIP form for my son. For activity 5 descriptor F Needs assistance of both bladder and and bowel. Will my son be able to qualify for the above descriptor?

thanks

Brie

I don't know the answer to your question.  But it may help you to have assistance from citizen's advice to ensure that everything on the application is outlined in a way that gives the best chance of success.

elsien

How old is your son? 

tacpot12

If he is incontinent and that he cannot apply the nappy himself (assuming that there is a good reason for this), then I would expect him to be awarded at least six points.

pope

elsien said:

How old is your son? 

16 years old

pope

tacpot12 said:

If he is incontinent and that he cannot apply the nappy himself (assuming that there is a good reason for this), then I would expect him to be awarded at least six points.

He has a brain age of a 4-5 year old has no consept. I am going to phone his Incontinence nurse and ask for supporting letter on the products perhaps it will help.

TimeLord1

Is he medically exempt from prescriptions and has a 5-year exemption card?

. And I understand it's difficult to discuss, but power to you. I believe there are no changes to any incontinence descriptors, so if he qualifies now, he will continue to qualify.

Spoonie_Turtle

Always handy to refer to the guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Activity 5 – managing toilet needs or incontinence

This activity considers a claimant’s ability to get on and off the toilet, to manage evacuation of the bladder and/or bowel and to clean afterwards.

This activity does not consider the ability to manage clothing, climb stairs or mobilise to the toilet.

Notes

Managing incontinence means the ability to manage involuntary evacuation of the bladder and/or bowel including the use of a collecting device or self-catheterisation and cleaning oneself afterwards. (Italics mine)

…

Descriptor D (4 points): Needs assistance to be able to manage toilet needs

This descriptor refers to claimants who require assistance to get on and off the toilet, evacuate the bladder and bowel to clean themselves afterwards, but not to claimants who require assistance due to incontinence. Claimants requiring ssistance who are also incontinent are covered by descriptors 5E and 5F.

Descriptor E (6 points): Needs assistance to be able to manage incontinence of either bladder or bowel

For example may apply to a claimant who requires assistance to change a stoma bag.

Descriptor F (8 points): Needs assistance to be able to manage incontinence of both bladder and bowel

---

Since you mention the incontinence service one assumes that he is undeniably incontinent for the purposes of PIP, and since presumably the reason you do it for him is he is unable to learn how to deal with it himself (you mention cognitive abilities of a 5-6 year old, and even a typical 5/6yo with typical learning ability would likely need assistance to clean and change themselves), then it would seem to follow that descriptor F is most likely to apply. 

[But I'm not an expert, hence caveat words like 'assume' and 'it would seem to' as this area is outwith my experience.]

pope

TimeLord1 said:

Is he medically exempt from prescriptions and has a 5-year exemption card?

. And I understand it's difficult to discuss, but power to you. I believe there are no changes to any incontinence descriptors, so if he qualifies now, he will continue to qualify.

He is 16 years old does not have to pay for prescriptions. He is changing from DLA to PIP.

pope

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Always handy to refer to the guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Activity 5 – managing toilet needs or incontinence

This activity considers a claimant’s ability to get on and off the toilet, to manage evacuation of the bladder and/or bowel and to clean afterwards.

This activity does not consider the ability to manage clothing, climb stairs or mobilise to the toilet.

Notes

Managing incontinence means the ability to manage involuntary evacuation of the bladder and/or bowel including the use of a collecting device or self-catheterisation and cleaning oneself afterwards. (Italics mine)

…

Descriptor D (4 points): Needs assistance to be able to manage toilet needs

This descriptor refers to claimants who require assistance to get on and off the toilet, evacuate the bladder and bowel to clean themselves afterwards, but not to claimants who require assistance due to incontinence. Claimants requiring ssistance who are also incontinent are covered by descriptors 5E and 5F.

Descriptor E (6 points): Needs assistance to be able to manage incontinence of either bladder or bowel

For example may apply to a claimant who requires assistance to change a stoma bag.

Descriptor F (8 points): Needs assistance to be able to manage incontinence of both bladder and bowel

---

Since you mention the incontinence service one assumes that he is undeniably incontinent for the purposes of PIP, and since presumably the reason you do it for him is he is unable to learn how to deal with it himself (you mention cognitive abilities of a 5-6 year old, and even a typical 5/6yo with typical learning ability would likely need assistance to clean and change themselves), then it would seem to follow that descriptor F is most likely to apply. 

[But I'm not an expert, hence caveat words like 'assume' and 'it would seem to' as this area is outwith my experience.]

yes he is unable to learn to do it for him self. He is transferring from DLA to PIP. When the DLA form was filled out several years ago I mentioned it in there as well but pip forms are different.

Dizzycap

pope said:

TimeLord1 said:

Is he medically exempt from prescriptions and has a 5-year exemption card?

. And I understand it's difficult to discuss, but power to you. I believe there are no changes to any incontinence descriptors, so if he qualifies now, he will continue to qualify.

He is 16 years old does not have to pay for prescriptions. He is changing from DLA to PIP.

pope said:

TimeLord1 said:

Is he medically exempt from prescriptions and has a 5-year exemption card?

. And I understand it's difficult to discuss, but power to you. I believe there are no changes to any incontinence descriptors, so if he qualifies now, he will continue to qualify.

He is 16 years old does not have to pay for prescriptions. He is changing from DLA to PIP.

pope said:

My son wears a nappy at night I have to put this on for him as he is unable to I also have to clean him as well as he is unable to clean his self. most nights we have to go through 2 nappies. during the day he also sometimes wears a nappy. But other times wears a special boxer pants supplied by the Incontinence service again which he can't manage.

filling in PIP form for my son. For activity 5 descriptor F Needs assistance of both bladder and and bowel. Will my son be able to qualify for the above descriptor?

thanks

pope said:

My son wears a nappy at night I have to put this on for him as he is unable to I also have to clean him as well as he is unable to clean his self. most nights we have to go through 2 nappies. during the day he also sometimes wears a nappy. But other times wears a special boxer pants supplied by the Incontinence service again which he can't manage.

filling in PIP form for my son. For activity 5 descriptor F Needs assistance of both bladder and and bowel. Will my son be able to qualify for the above descriptor?

thanks

I would say yes - Descriptor F (8 points): Needs assistance to be able to manage incontinence of both bladder and bowel, as you have to manage all his toilet needs both day & night because he is sadly unable to manage anything including cleaning himself.
I would work along the lines of, if he can't manage a single thing on his own, then it's the worse case senario on the form which is usually max points. A letter from his incontinence nurse would be ideal as proof & the degree of severity of his incontinence issues etc.