I messed up mediation - Gladstones

Stableintrovert

Hello, I'm new here, being taken to court by Gladstones for a parking ticket that was issued to my son for parking in his flat and not displaying his permit.  V5 is in his name showing that he acquired the vehicle on 22.11.22, but son didn't do this until July 2024. Sadly I have only just found you and seem to have done everything I shouldn't do.  I went to mediation. Man was awful and tied me in knots - asking me why I didn't pay the fine (it wasn't mine, I had given the car to my son by then and I was unable to contact the debt collection company as their number just rang for hours).

At mediation, my three courses of action were: court, pay the money, or to first try and get Gladstones to change the PCN to the correct person. That's the one I chose.  They came back and said:

I have sought instruction from our client who has informed me that there is no record that you attempted to transfer liability in relation to this contravention event. Do you have any proof of contact regarding this transfer of liability?

So I sent them the email trail.  They then came back and said:

By way of update, our client intends to proceed with the claim on the basis that you did not comply with the timeline provided to transfer liability of the claim.

I also DID try to transfer liability within 28 days. The ticket was 16.11.23 and I received it on 14.12.23 forwarded from our old address as we'd just moved.  I rang and rang, and several times filled in the contact form with the driver's details.  I finally messaged complaints department. via their contact form, but was not contacted back by the complaints lady until 10th January 24, despite endlessly hanging on the phone.  I told them all this.

Reply was: 

As a preliminary matter we advise that you seek independent legal advice as you are not represented in this matter and we are not able to give you legal advice. Furthermore, the below does not constitute legal advice.

A mediation was convened on 21st March. During this mediation, our client UK Car Park Management Limited made an offer to settle the claim of £215.00.

You elected not to accept our offer of settlement at the mediation. Instead, you stated that you would like to challenge the PCN on the basis of your attempting to transfer liability. In response, I indictaed I would seek instruction from our client on this point. Upon careful and thorough examination of your file, it was confirmed that you in fact did not comply with the requirements of Section 4 of POFA, which requires that you transfer liability within 28 days of the parking contravention. Furthermore, it remains unclear why you or your son were unable to pay for the PCN, despite your failure to comply with POFA. As such, our client is within their right to proceed with the claim.

If you want to settle this matter, then our client now requires the full amount of the claim, as you refused the amount offered at mediation.

The amount that therefore remains due is £270.55.

It does not remain unclear why we were unable to pay for the PCN. I sent them all the emails.  It was not mine to pay and my son was willing to pay. The company offered to help and change the documents into son's name so he could log in and pay. They never did this and we never heard from the lady again after the initial telephone call and emails.

I work for the NHS, long hours, not a great amount of pay (not a sob story was £270 is loads) but I'm very close to just giving in - can't bear the thought of going to court again.  Please help, I'd be really grateful for a strategy.  Thanks in advance.  

ChirpyChicken

You haven't messed up mediation it is irrelevant 

Car1980

1. The mediator overstepped their boundary. Coupon mad has some information about how you can complain about this ridiculous individual, who seems to think he's a judge.

2. You've been sucked into getting into conversations with the parking cowboys. They're never going to play nice. Step away from them.

3. There is no 28 day liability window "timeline". You can transfer liability at any time up until proceedings. The 28 day time period is merely the green light for them to start sending threatograms to the registered keeper. It is a time limit for them, not you. They are LYING. If you've sent them the email trail evidence they're very likely to discontinue before paying their hearing fee.

What exactly did you submit for your defence?

Johnersh

Sighs. Is it too much to ask for a parking company to set out the law correctly, even if the wording of PoFA sch IV is labyrinthine?

C is permitted to rely on PoFA if the driver was not named prior to proceedings - the ability to transfer to a driver ends upon date of commencement of Court proceedings. What is the issue date on the claim form?

Specifically the transfer can take place on any date before then. The 28th day after notice to keeper was given  is merely the end of the notice period, following which they can take action.  See ss.5(1)(II) and 5(2).

The sting in the tail for the claimant is that pursuing the keeper is tightly controlled. They will also be restricted to recovery of the maximum sum in the notice to keeper - s.4(5), which is I suspect £100 plus the court fees now proceedings are ongoing.

Statute uses the term *maximum* sum, which is unambiguous. So the sum in the notice, not more.  At a brushstroke that ought to clear out the bolt on charges. 

If I'm correct on that, it follows that the defendant cannot be expected to accept any mediation proposal greater than a sum permitted by law with erroneous interest charges on top. The claimant can do one. Indeed, they would, in theory, have been better off had they accepted the defendant's proposal with the third party (son) consenting to be substituted as defendant.

Footnote:
If D can produce an email showing relevant name and address was given prior to proceedings that will be a complete defence, since Claimant was on notice and keeper liability is conditional upon the claimant not having those details.

Coupon-mad

In short: they lied.

Await your Hearing Order then include all of this in your Witness statement and attach the email evidence. We will help you.

There is NO 28 DAY DEADLINE in the POFA. Stop being sucked in!

Car1980

These are the magic words to use in your Witness Statement:


The 28 day time period is not a “transfer of liability window”. By naming the driver of the vehicle any obligations as keeper have been discharged, and they can do this at any time before proceedings are commenced.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 states:

Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle

4(1) The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

(2) The right under this paragraph applies only if—

(a) the conditions specified in paragraphs 5 [are met]

Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4

5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a) has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but

(b) is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

(2) Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

Once the claimant has actual knowledge of the driver identity (name and address), the conditions in paragraph 5 are no longer met, so the right to pursue the keeper is extinguished.

Johnersh

@Car1980 as a matter of law it doesn't need to be in the witness statement at all - I normally prefer those to contain fact only.

Certainly worth the PPC being read the riot act if proper notice was given as their claim is destined to fail. That means you can tell them far earlier than WS stage.

Stableintrovert

You're all so kind thank you very much for being so generous with your expertise.

Issue date is 4th Feb 2025.  

Should I reply to their email at all or just completely ignore?

I haven't been given a court date yet.

And yes, I have lots of emails backwards and forwards with the Debt people telling them my son's details, dating back to August 2024 - sadly lots of my original stuff has been lost. But I've already provided them with copy emails.  They even rang him (although I can't prove that even though I have the lady's mobile number). I've even sent them the V5.

Car1980

Johnersh said:

@Car1980 as a matter of law it doesn't need to be in the witness statement at all - I normally prefer those to contain fact only.

Certainly worth the PPC being read the riot act if proper notice was given as their claim is destined to fail. That means you can tell them far earlier than WS stage.

Yes, but the defence has already been submitted, so shoving it into the WS is the only option.

Car1980

Stableintrovert said:

You're all so kind thank you very much for being so generous with your expertise.

Issue date is 4th Feb 2025.  

Should I reply to their email at all or just completely ignore?

I haven't been given a court date yet.

And yes, I have lots of emails backwards and forwards with the Debt people telling them my son's details, dating back to August 2024 - sadly lots of my original stuff has been lost. But I've already provided them with copy emails.  They even rang him (although I can't prove that even though I have the lady's mobile number). I've even sent them the V5.

Ignore them. They know the deal, and I suspect they'll discontinue.

But tell us what you put in your defence please.

Johnersh

Yes, but the defence has already been submitted, so shoving it into the WS is the only option

Not at all.

The o/p can (and should) ask the claimant in correspondence on what basis they bring the claim, referring them directly to PoFA and providing details of any emails (or responses) etc following the transfer of liability.

That is correspondence that can be produced at a hearing when/if the defendant seeks costs for unreasonable conduct. Relevant correspondence which the defendant will ensure is included in the trial bundle.

No one should forget the option of "turning the screw" to encourage discontinuance sooner rather than later. Easily done when the evidence is very strong. That process is after all what the claimant has done with their endless pre-action threats (except done properly).

If there is no legal basis on which the claimant brings the claim, it is most unlikely that the defendant will be prevented from arguing her case - even if that looks a bit different to the defence filed.