Major retailer refusing to refund online purchase - please help

photome

mr_stripey said:

photome said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Was the purchase from Johnlewis.com or some secondary website?
I was not aware that JL had a pre-loved range, but having found that on their website today they seem to only have jewellery listed.

I thought the same but I found pre loved bags for over 1k on their website and the t and c seem to be the same as if buying new

here is one for nearly 5K 

https://www.johnlewis.com/pre-loved-chanel-2015-ballerine-lambskin-quilted-flap-cross-body-bag-black-beige/p113642938

I'd love a glimpse into the paralel universe where someone buys a handbag for five grand! 

That said , the T&C's dont' seem to explicity exclude pre loved items from returns so it's not clear why JL are rejecting the refund.

Indeed some Chanel bags are 10k, that must be some mark up, wonder what they cost to make

Alderbank

photome said:

mr_stripey said:

photome said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Was the purchase from Johnlewis.com or some secondary website?
I was not aware that JL had a pre-loved range, but having found that on their website today they seem to only have jewellery listed.

I thought the same but I found pre loved bags for over 1k on their website and the t and c seem to be the same as if buying new

here is one for nearly 5K 

https://www.johnlewis.com/pre-loved-chanel-2015-ballerine-lambskin-quilted-flap-cross-body-bag-black-beige/p113642938

I'd love a glimpse into the paralel universe where someone buys a handbag for five grand! 

That said , the T&C's dont' seem to explicity exclude pre loved items from returns so it's not clear why JL are rejecting the refund.

Indeed some Chanel bags are 10k, that must be some mark up, wonder what they cost to make

The cost to make them in a sweatshop in Vietnam won't be that much.

It's the cost to market and promote each bag (catwalks, glossy mags, high-end Fifth Avenue shops) which will be eye-watering. 

screech_78

Okell said:

I didn't know JL sold "pre-loved" stuff either...  

Perhaps @screech_78 might have some ideas

I know JL do sell pre-loved items, however I’ve never actually dealt with a complaint regarding anything purchased this way so I don’t know the answer. Something for me to look into. I think a colleague had a complaint about a second hand ring once, but can’t remember how it was handled. 

My feeling is these are sold by a 3rd party, the delivery details state delivered by supplier. However if purchased on JL website and the terms don’t say anything different, your contract is with JL. 

Maybe one to send to the Chairman (email address can be found with a quick google). The team there will be able to look into it further. Although given the amount at stake, it’s maybe something you’d need to take further as I don’t know how it will pan out for you. 

sheramber

https://www.johnlewispartnership.media/pressrelease/waitrose/details/20432

Zinger549

Alderbank said:

photome said:

mr_stripey said:

photome said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Was the purchase from Johnlewis.com or some secondary website?
I was not aware that JL had a pre-loved range, but having found that on their website today they seem to only have jewellery listed.

I thought the same but I found pre loved bags for over 1k on their website and the t and c seem to be the same as if buying new

here is one for nearly 5K 

https://www.johnlewis.com/pre-loved-chanel-2015-ballerine-lambskin-quilted-flap-cross-body-bag-black-beige/p113642938

I'd love a glimpse into the paralel universe where someone buys a handbag for five grand! 

That said , the T&C's dont' seem to explicity exclude pre loved items from returns so it's not clear why JL are rejecting the refund.

Indeed some Chanel bags are 10k, that must be some mark up, wonder what they cost to make

The cost to make them in a sweatshop in Vietnam won't be that much.

It's the cost to market and promote each bag (catwalks, glossy mags, high-end Fifth Avenue shops) which will be eye-watering. 

They make them in France and Italy.

https://wwd.com/fashion-news/designer-luxury/chanel-classic-flap-bag-making-of-1237069249/

wynn65

Hi, firstly thank you so much to all of you that have been kind enough to provide advice on this, I appreciate it.

There is more to this situation, so will try to explain and answer your questions along the way.

I believe that I purchased the bag from JL - as shown on my receipt.

I have purchased items/returned items before with no issues.

T&C's, I believe are the same as other products sold from their site - 30 days.

The description and pics pre-purchase and the bag I received, appeared to me, to be the same. (please note that the bag is currently with the courier - in transit, being sent back to me - even though I told them it wasn't for me/I did not like it, etc).

I don't know why JL are rejecting the refund - but when I called JL customer services (who were very kind to me and helpful) I was initially informed that there was no data logged on their system/no proof that the bag had actually been returned to them!!! Then after almost an hour on the phone, they told me that their 'warehouse' had said that it had indeed been returned to them, but there was scratches/damage to it so was being returned to me/ refusing the refund!!

I honestly am not sure if their staff actually looked at the original sales page, and checked the blown-up images, because the bag is obviously used and not new! Scrapes, creasing, etc, can be seen clearly in those images.

PS/. I have kept all the images/their photos, etc.

Other than that it could be JL's massive profit potentially from bag sales, but that is just a  thought I had ... I could be wrong.

Then customer services spoke with their boss and returned to me suggesting a solution - that they'll send the bag back to me, (which I have not yet received, but is with DHL) for me to take it physically to a JL store and for the JL staff to inspect it properly and more thoroughly!

I really don't know why this would make any difference at all - especially as this whole situation would now be on their records - as I was clearly informed by the JL representative - when I go to the shop they'd understand fully after reading through all the details (????) - surely it'd have been checked over and scrutinized in their warehouse!

Sorry if I sound fed up with this - but I really am and will never shop at JL again ...... I feel like it's a joke ! A costly one on my part !!!

I am 80-100 miles away from a JL store, I have no vehicle to get there and to top it off am disabled due to serious medical issues!! I informed them of this too.

It appears to me that JL sell these items/bags, especially being a 'trusted partner' (or similar) to Chanel, etc - which are authenticated by 'Entrupy' as shown on their sales page.

Sending full details to the JL chairman is a good idea - but am not positive that it will get me anywhere  .... but thank you for the idea.

It may be worth informing the general public too about some of the 'goings-on' at JL via the papers - what are your thoughts about that?

Just to add a couple of further points, after the phone conversation, I strangely could not access any of my previous online JL orders - seems like I was blocked! .... don't know why ???

Lastly (for now anyway) soon after I purchased this bag - another one, that was absolutely identical to the one I had, appeared for sale on the JL site - using the exact same photos/description ...... highly concerning for the original manufacturer I would think ....

If there is anybody that has managed to grasp my horrible experience so far - please let me know what your thoughts are, as I am so very stressed and upset by it all and would welcome your comments.

Thank you.  

Alderbank

wynn65 said:

It may be worth informing the general public too about some of the 'goings-on' at JL via the papers - what are your thoughts about that?

Do you mean scurrilous allegations about JLP's former chairman Sharon White from papers like the Daily Fail?

I think it's a dreadful idea.

Not worthy of you, no relevance for consumer rights and nothing to do with your handbag.

Okell

@wynn65

did you exercise your statutory right to cancel a distance contract within 14 days under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 or did you simply return the goods under JL's own 30 day returns policy?

To exercise your statutory right you have to clearly inform the seller within 14 days of delivery that you are cancelling the contrcat, and you then have a further 14 days in which to return the goods.

The benefit of correctly exercising the statutory right to cancel is that (1) JL cannot refuse your cancellation, and (2) even if you have "damaged" the bag in some way, they can only deduct from your refund the loss in value - if any.

Even if you have damaged the bag (and I'm not suggesting you have) it's inconceivable that you have reduced it's value to zero.

So when you returned the bag to JL, what exactly did you tell them and how long after delivery was that?  (Try to be as precise as possible)

wynn65

Hi and thanks for all your replies.

I am not proposing to go to the papers about this - I am just simply wanting a refund as haven't done anything wrong.

I had purchased several other items from JL around this time.

3rd April - online order of bag

7th April - received the bag

8th April (I think) - phoned JL regarding some returns - told them that I didn't like the bag and it's not for me, and the other items did not fit me well.

JL told me to return items to local Waitrose store, as did not have a working printer for return label.

17th April - returned all items including bag in original packaging with labels etc. Was handed proof receipts by Waitrose staff.

21st April - received emails from JL regarding refunds for returned items - but NOT an email for the bag! 

22nd April - phoned JL around lunchtime about not getting an email regarding the bag refund and was told they haven't received any proof of return, therefore to either wait for another 14 days, or go back to Waitrose to find out what has happened to the returned bag.

22nd April - at the end of the day I received an email from JL stating - ''I’m sorry that on this occasion you found it unsuitable. At present we’re unable to refund the item as its condition doesn't meet the refund policy 

However, I’d really like to discuss this with you further. Would you be so kind as to give us a call on the telephone number listed below.

If I don’t hear from you in the next 48 hours I’ll return your item to you by post to your billing address.''

22nd April - phoned her but she'd left for the day.

23rd April - called JL which lasted almost an hour - details of call noted earlier. 

After that call I received an email from the customer service person that I'd just spoken with a little earlier stating ''We want to assure you that we have thoroughly reviewed your case and have explored all available options to assist you remotely. Therefore, the necessary next step is to take the item to your nearest John Lewis & Partners store. Our Partners in the store have the facilities to inspect the item directly and will be best placed to assist you further towards a resolution. Before you head to the store, we would appreciate it if you could give us a call at your convenience. This will give us an opportunity to discuss this further, answer any immediate questions you might have, and ensure you have all the information you need prior to your visit. 

We genuinely regret the inconvenience this situation has caused. We appreciate your patience and hope that our Partners in-store can bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion for you swiftly.''

28th April - email from courier - notification stating that they are expecting the JL parcel

29th April - email from courier stating that they now have the JL parcel

I still have not yet received the parcel
The 30 day return period will be on 2nd / 3rd May!

I hope this answers your questions, if I've missed anything please let me know.

Thank you once again

Alderbank

Thanks for your reply.

...8th April (I think) - phoned JL regarding some returns - told them that I didn't like the bag and it's not for me, and the other items did not fit me well...

I'm afraid this answers @Okell's question; you returned the goods under JLP's own return policy and did not use the specified form of words necessary to tell them that you were exercising your right to cancel the contract under your rights in part 3 s32 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013.

Those regulations are very picky about the right words being used at the right time but that applies equally to both parties. You might be too late now to do that, but if JLP have not given you all the correct wording about your rights to cancel and in the correct format you could still be in time.

I think you should email them without delay to make clear that you are cancelling the contract for the bag, as Okell advises above.

Then tell us what they come back with.