Euro Car Parks - POFA stated and appeal text box character number limit!

Squirrel_Nut

Hi all,
This one is partly for information on ECP's appeal page character limit and partly to make sure the best steps have been taken. 

This case (some learning in here also about ECP):

I have one successful appeal in a different car park (few years ago) as keeper, which was 'non POFA' (I did post about the success in this forum). This one is POFA (as can be seen below) but I went for the blue 'one size fits all' wording on the NEWBIES sticky. I have already spoken to the land owner (pub), who I know quite well. Showed them the letter and they told me to 'email the PPC proof of purchase and they will cancel the PCN'. If they don't, then bring it back to us. ECP now have no working email address. They want all comms through their 'contact' feature on their website. I sent proof of purchase and of course, they replied next day with 'please appeal on the website, if you wish to not pay the PCN'. 

So, my plan was to use the 'one size fits all' wording on their appeals page of the website but add at the bottom that the driver (who I shall not name) has provided an anonymous proof of purchase and attach it. However, they have limited the characters in the appeal text box so much that the 'one size fits all' appeal wording does not fit in! (I doubt that this is a coincidence!). The last paragraph doesn't fit (even when gaps are removed between paragraphs. So, the extra wording I planned also couldn't fit on. Therefore, my only options were either go for the proof of purchase option or the 'one size fits all'. I chose the second option - which hopefully was the best one. As this is POFA stated (see below), I'm not feeling 100% about this one. Any comments would be appreciated, as always please. 

Note: I didn't post on here before submitting the appeal as I nearly ran out of time. The 28 days is nearly up and so had to take a view on it. Long story but had a crazy few weeks. 

I have the back-up plan that I'll go back to the manager of the land owner company and ask them to also contact the company. I'm a bit wary in case they trick the manager to find out who the driver was.. maybe I'm a bit over worried on this part, but it could happen and the pub could benefit from PCN invoices - so maybe they would be relaxed and tell them, but not sure that the pub staff know or care who drove.. If it goes to the next stage, I have the proof of purchase from the pub that the driver has as evidence. I can also post the front of the PCN, if it would help assess. The 'one size fits all' appeal was the best option here?

Umkomaas

Whatever you send them, they will likely reject. I wouldn't worry too much on that front. Once you have the rejection, go back to the store manager and get them to cancel it. It wasn't Morrisons by chance?

Squirrel_Nut

No, not Morrisons. It's is a pub that's part of the 'Sizzling Pubs' chain..

Coupon-mad

However, they have limited the characters in the appeal text box so much that the 'one size fits all' appeal wording does not fit in!

Nobody has ever said this before but just don't use the template in full then (or at all).

Write whatever you want!

Squirrel_Nut

Noted @Coupon-mad. In hindsight, I could have taken out some of the wording and added the part that I'd already informed them about in their 'contact us' page on their website, with proof of purchase provided again. However, as @Umkomaas pointed out - they would likely just reject it again, as they did in their email reply. 

I'll proceed as kindly suggested and await the inevitable appeal rejection, then go back to see the land owner manager to explain, show proof of purchase again and ask them to sort it for me. If that fails, I'll read up again on the POPLA appeal part (and the rest of it) of the NEWBIES thread in case it gets to that stage. Thanks for the help and replies, as always 

ThorOdinson

With these character limits if you disable JavaScript you can often put in as much as you like.

Squirrel_Nut

ThorOdinson said:

With these character limits if you disable JavaScript you can often put in as much as you like.

Had no idea, so thanks for this. This will help others and me for next time!

Its sad that in this case, the driver was a paying customer - the car park owners have no intention of 'fining', yet ECP refuse to take the evidence and push the keeper to appeal, in the hope (I assume) that someone just pays up to stop the chasing and stress. Not going to happen in this case!  

With the comments above, if could do the appeal again - would disable JavaScript and use most of the blue template on the NEWBIES thread but add at the bottom that evidence is attached (and attach the internet banking screen shot, which I already sent them).

I'll add photos of the car park signage, for people's info and see if any issues can be spotted.. the wording in red text is sketchy at best (this super-small text seems to be their main 'Terms and Conditions', as there is no other signage). As the driver has the authority to have parked in this car park, ECP should stop their action. This is obvious without even digging any further. Thoughts on the signage anyone, please?

Coupon-mad

I don't think the signs are terrible. The worst aspect is that parking firms aren't doing what landowners want. Did you see @Kaizen2024 (a self confessed parking industry poster) whining last week that landowners are 'the weakest link' who shouldn't interfere with a POC's 'revenue'?!

That's the calibre of this industry's mindset. It's astonishing that they think refusing landowner requests to cancel and calling their clients 'the weakest link' is so normal that it should be raised as a justification here, of all places!

Squirrel_Nut

I haven't seen it yet @Coupon-mad but will have a look at the post. 

I can only assume that the 'space maximisation scheme' on this sign means that they will aim to fine as many of the land owner's genuine customers as possible, so they get annoyed and stop being customers (there are loads of negative reviews due to cases like this and it is affecting the pub's reputation negatively), leaving loads of empty parking spaces (maximised!) and go out of business. This could happen if they continue to seemingly operate without morals or common decency and fine genuine customers despite receiving supporting evidence, as in this case..

From discussions at the location, the land owner wants to stop 'non-customers' from using their car park for free and shopping elsewhere. This is why they have the management in place it would seem. If they continue to go after and refuse to cancel the PCN's of genuine customers with evidence, the car park management may be given to a company who will manage it how they intended.

It states 'guest only car park' - so someone with proof that they were a 'paying guest' should simply not have to deal with this.

Coupon-mad

If they continue to go after and refuse to cancel the PCN's of genuine customers with evidence, the car park management may be given to a company who will manage it how they intended.

There is no such parking firm. They all operate like this.

All the landowner needs is a barrier at night, a few polite signs of their own and a BIG welcome sign promoting their pub, and a clear effort to turn the occasional trespasser into a customer.