I was refused entry in a local B&M store today

born_again

nero33 said:

born_again said:

Rule of thumb CCTV is only held for 30 days. 
So you would need to act fast to get a copy. 

You'd think they'd need to keep it if it has been used to accuse someone of a specific crime and might be required to backup that decision if the accused wishes to challenge/dispute their decision.

They would only keep it if it was passed to police & prosecution was pending.

This is the danger with the 3rd party companies running these systems, they have no access to retailers systems. Retailers will not keep anything other than when cases are pending to go to court. 

Jenni_D

Renfrewman said:

nero33 said:

sheramber said:

Renfrewman said:

MattMattMattUK said:

nero33 said:

UPDATE

I have been in regular contact with Facewatch and I requested that they send me all evidence that was held on their system.

I was told they did not hold any CCTV/video of the alleged incident but would now involve B&M who held the evidence/footage.

Facewatch then contacted me same day to say:

"Following our recent communications, I escalated the incident to the Manager of Profit Protection for B&M Bargains on your behalf.

Unfortunately, there is no longer any CCTV footage available for this incident.

In light of this, and considering the information you have provided, I have resolved the matter by removing your record from the Facewatch system.

Your profile has now been permanently deleted, and  will no longer trigger any alerts going forward."

Clearly it is a huge weight off our shoulders and 4 months of stress took it's toll.

Facewatch were extremely professional and courteous throughout and I genuinely felt they were looking to help me from their first reply onwards.  I think they realised yesterday that someone at B&M may have made up an incident and didn't expect us to go through the processes involved in challenging their decision to ban.

It is highly unlikely that we'll ever set foot in a B&M store again.

Many thanks to all of you that took the time to read/reply/offer advice;

A really good result and good info for others in the future who have done nothing wrong. Well done on this!

Something similar happened to me in B&M.  I was stopped in the car park and asked to return to the store as a staff member thought they saw me shoplifting...was happy to do so! I was asked to empty my right hand jacket pocket...I did and it revealed six branded Tesco tattie scones...honestly you should have seen their faces! Did I get upset...not in the least especially as I got £50 of vouchers! Mistakes happen. OP fought for the right to shop in B&M and now that they can refuses to do so...a bit perverse I suggest?

You were given the chance to prove your innocence. The OP was not.

Would You have been happy to be refused entry the next time you went and told you had something in your in pocket you did not pay for when you left the store last time? 

How would you have proved them wrong?
 

The ban did not just affect B&M. It affected all stores who use Facewatch, which could be all the stores in their neighbourhood. 

Absolutely this.

The long term ramifications of this could have been disastrous for me or anyone else put in this situation.

In what way?

That's already been clearly explained. Face Watch is becoming used in more locations and companies ... the OP has already clearly stated that Sainsburys is their nearest alternative to B&M, and Sainsburys are starting to use FW too. The further it spreads, the less choice victims have for daily/weekly shopping.

If you tried reading the thread rather than point scoring you'd already know this. 🤦‍♀️

sheramber

Renfrewman said:

nero33 said:

sheramber said:

Renfrewman said:

MattMattMattUK said:

nero33 said:

UPDATE

I have been in regular contact with Facewatch and I requested that they send me all evidence that was held on their system.

I was told they did not hold any CCTV/video of the alleged incident but would now involve B&M who held the evidence/footage.

Facewatch then contacted me same day to say:

"Following our recent communications, I escalated the incident to the Manager of Profit Protection for B&M Bargains on your behalf.

Unfortunately, there is no longer any CCTV footage available for this incident.

In light of this, and considering the information you have provided, I have resolved the matter by removing your record from the Facewatch system.

Your profile has now been permanently deleted, and  will no longer trigger any alerts going forward."

Clearly it is a huge weight off our shoulders and 4 months of stress took it's toll.

Facewatch were extremely professional and courteous throughout and I genuinely felt they were looking to help me from their first reply onwards.  I think they realised yesterday that someone at B&M may have made up an incident and didn't expect us to go through the processes involved in challenging their decision to ban.

It is highly unlikely that we'll ever set foot in a B&M store again.

Many thanks to all of you that took the time to read/reply/offer advice;

A really good result and good info for others in the future who have done nothing wrong. Well done on this!

Something similar happened to me in B&M.  I was stopped in the car park and asked to return to the store as a staff member thought they saw me shoplifting...was happy to do so! I was asked to empty my right hand jacket pocket...I did and it revealed six branded Tesco tattie scones...honestly you should have seen their faces! Did I get upset...not in the least especially as I got £50 of vouchers! Mistakes happen. OP fought for the right to shop in B&M and now that they can refuses to do so...a bit perverse I suggest?

You were given the chance to prove your innocence. The OP was not.

Would You have been happy to be refused entry the next time you went and told you had something in your in pocket you did not pay for when you left the store last time? 

How would you have proved them wrong?
 

The ban did not just affect B&M. It affected all stores who use Facewatch, which could be all the stores in their neighbourhood. 

Absolutely this.

The long term ramifications of this could have been disastrous for me or anyone else put in this situation.

In what way?

Since you need it spelled out to you the ramification is not being able to enter any shop to buy necessities to live - line your cat treats that you bought in B&M. 

How would your moggh feel if you were not able to buy any more treats because all the shops refused you entry.?

Renfrewman

Jenni_D said:

Renfrewman said:

nero33 said:

sheramber said:

Renfrewman said:

MattMattMattUK said:

nero33 said:

UPDATE

I have been in regular contact with Facewatch and I requested that they send me all evidence that was held on their system.

I was told they did not hold any CCTV/video of the alleged incident but would now involve B&M who held the evidence/footage.

Facewatch then contacted me same day to say:

"Following our recent communications, I escalated the incident to the Manager of Profit Protection for B&M Bargains on your behalf.

Unfortunately, there is no longer any CCTV footage available for this incident.

In light of this, and considering the information you have provided, I have resolved the matter by removing your record from the Facewatch system.

Your profile has now been permanently deleted, and  will no longer trigger any alerts going forward."

Clearly it is a huge weight off our shoulders and 4 months of stress took it's toll.

Facewatch were extremely professional and courteous throughout and I genuinely felt they were looking to help me from their first reply onwards.  I think they realised yesterday that someone at B&M may have made up an incident and didn't expect us to go through the processes involved in challenging their decision to ban.

It is highly unlikely that we'll ever set foot in a B&M store again.

Many thanks to all of you that took the time to read/reply/offer advice;

A really good result and good info for others in the future who have done nothing wrong. Well done on this!

Something similar happened to me in B&M.  I was stopped in the car park and asked to return to the store as a staff member thought they saw me shoplifting...was happy to do so! I was asked to empty my right hand jacket pocket...I did and it revealed six branded Tesco tattie scones...honestly you should have seen their faces! Did I get upset...not in the least especially as I got £50 of vouchers! Mistakes happen. OP fought for the right to shop in B&M and now that they can refuses to do so...a bit perverse I suggest?

You were given the chance to prove your innocence. The OP was not.

Would You have been happy to be refused entry the next time you went and told you had something in your in pocket you did not pay for when you left the store last time? 

How would you have proved them wrong?
 

The ban did not just affect B&M. It affected all stores who use Facewatch, which could be all the stores in their neighbourhood. 

Absolutely this.

The long term ramifications of this could have been disastrous for me or anyone else put in this situation.

In what way?

That's already been clearly explained. Face Watch is becoming used in more locations and companies ... the OP has already clearly stated that Sainsburys is their nearest alternative to B&M, and Sainsburys are starting to use FW too. The further it spreads, the less choice victims have for daily/weekly shopping.

If you tried reading the thread rather than point scoring you'd already know this. 🤦‍♀️

I managed to shop before B&M or Sainsburys had shops anywhere near where I lived. IF by any remote hypothetical chance I was barred I would manage...it may be occasionally slightly inconvenient but it will never be disastrous. What iffery is not a disaster!

Renfrewman

sheramber said:

Renfrewman said:

nero33 said:

sheramber said:

Renfrewman said:

MattMattMattUK said:

nero33 said:

UPDATE

I have been in regular contact with Facewatch and I requested that they send me all evidence that was held on their system.

I was told they did not hold any CCTV/video of the alleged incident but would now involve B&M who held the evidence/footage.

Facewatch then contacted me same day to say:

"Following our recent communications, I escalated the incident to the Manager of Profit Protection for B&M Bargains on your behalf.

Unfortunately, there is no longer any CCTV footage available for this incident.

In light of this, and considering the information you have provided, I have resolved the matter by removing your record from the Facewatch system.

Your profile has now been permanently deleted, and  will no longer trigger any alerts going forward."

Clearly it is a huge weight off our shoulders and 4 months of stress took it's toll.

Facewatch were extremely professional and courteous throughout and I genuinely felt they were looking to help me from their first reply onwards.  I think they realised yesterday that someone at B&M may have made up an incident and didn't expect us to go through the processes involved in challenging their decision to ban.

It is highly unlikely that we'll ever set foot in a B&M store again.

Many thanks to all of you that took the time to read/reply/offer advice;

A really good result and good info for others in the future who have done nothing wrong. Well done on this!

Something similar happened to me in B&M.  I was stopped in the car park and asked to return to the store as a staff member thought they saw me shoplifting...was happy to do so! I was asked to empty my right hand jacket pocket...I did and it revealed six branded Tesco tattie scones...honestly you should have seen their faces! Did I get upset...not in the least especially as I got £50 of vouchers! Mistakes happen. OP fought for the right to shop in B&M and now that they can refuses to do so...a bit perverse I suggest?

You were given the chance to prove your innocence. The OP was not.

Would You have been happy to be refused entry the next time you went and told you had something in your in pocket you did not pay for when you left the store last time? 

How would you have proved them wrong?
 

The ban did not just affect B&M. It affected all stores who use Facewatch, which could be all the stores in their neighbourhood. 

Absolutely this.

The long term ramifications of this could have been disastrous for me or anyone else put in this situation.

In what way?

Since you need it spelled out to you the ramification is not being able to enter any shop to buy necessities to live - line your cat treats that you bought in B&M. 

How would your moggh feel if you were not able to buy any more treats because all the shops refused you entry.?

Cat treats? WHAT CAT? Strange...very strange.

booneruk

It would be sensible if there was an official mechanism to appeal, with original footage needing to be retained as cases like this will continue to happen. Humans make mistakes, and they can be malicious.

However, it wouldn't be the end of the world if you were unable to physically shop. There's a world of online options these days (not that I'm saying being barred from physical stores without good reason should be a thing we tolerate)

born_again

Renfrewman said:

sheramber said:

Since you need it spelled out to you the ramification is not being able to enter any shop to buy necessities to live - line your cat treats that you bought in B&M. 

How would your moggh feel if you were not able to buy any more treats because all the shops refused you entry.?

Cat treats? WHAT CAT? Strange...very strange.

Have you never heard of the nuns & kittens.. 🤣

nero33

Jenni_D said:

Renfrewman said:

nero33 said:

sheramber said:

Renfrewman said:

MattMattMattUK said:

nero33 said:

UPDATE

I have been in regular contact with Facewatch and I requested that they send me all evidence that was held on their system.

I was told they did not hold any CCTV/video of the alleged incident but would now involve B&M who held the evidence/footage.

Facewatch then contacted me same day to say:

"Following our recent communications, I escalated the incident to the Manager of Profit Protection for B&M Bargains on your behalf.

Unfortunately, there is no longer any CCTV footage available for this incident.

In light of this, and considering the information you have provided, I have resolved the matter by removing your record from the Facewatch system.

Your profile has now been permanently deleted, and  will no longer trigger any alerts going forward."

Clearly it is a huge weight off our shoulders and 4 months of stress took it's toll.

Facewatch were extremely professional and courteous throughout and I genuinely felt they were looking to help me from their first reply onwards.  I think they realised yesterday that someone at B&M may have made up an incident and didn't expect us to go through the processes involved in challenging their decision to ban.

It is highly unlikely that we'll ever set foot in a B&M store again.

Many thanks to all of you that took the time to read/reply/offer advice;

A really good result and good info for others in the future who have done nothing wrong. Well done on this!

Something similar happened to me in B&M.  I was stopped in the car park and asked to return to the store as a staff member thought they saw me shoplifting...was happy to do so! I was asked to empty my right hand jacket pocket...I did and it revealed six branded Tesco tattie scones...honestly you should have seen their faces! Did I get upset...not in the least especially as I got £50 of vouchers! Mistakes happen. OP fought for the right to shop in B&M and now that they can refuses to do so...a bit perverse I suggest?

You were given the chance to prove your innocence. The OP was not.

Would You have been happy to be refused entry the next time you went and told you had something in your in pocket you did not pay for when you left the store last time? 

How would you have proved them wrong?
 

The ban did not just affect B&M. It affected all stores who use Facewatch, which could be all the stores in their neighbourhood. 

Absolutely this.

The long term ramifications of this could have been disastrous for me or anyone else put in this situation.

In what way?

That's already been clearly explained. Face Watch is becoming used in more locations and companies ... the OP has already clearly stated that Sainsburys is their nearest alternative to B&M, and Sainsburys are starting to use FW too. The further it spreads, the less choice victims have for daily/weekly shopping.

If you tried reading the thread rather than point scoring you'd already know this. 🤦‍♀️

In the words of the great Andy Dufresne: How can he/she be so obtuse?

Alderbank

booneruk said:

It would be sensible if there was an official mechanism to appeal, with original footage needing to be retained as cases like this will continue to happen. Humans make mistakes, and they can be malicious.

However, it wouldn't be the end of the world if you were unable to physically shop. There's a world of online options these days (not that I'm saying being barred from physical stores without good reason should be a thing we tolerate)

That's a very interesting post and I'd like to develop it..

The right of shopkeepers to bar anyone from their physical stores without good reason (indeed without any reason at all) is one we have had for years. We not only tolerate it but embrace it*.

AI face recognition is new, but using eyeballs is not. Some shops ban schoolkids unless with adults, and some shops ban gangs of schoolkids. Any bans of potential customers are difficult commercial decisions for retailers. When they make them, they always seem to be for the same reason, that they can't afford to subsidise shoplifters and can't afford the time and substantial costs to bring private prosecutions or civil court action. I can't imagine any other business reasons why shops would seek to reduce the flow of potential customers through their doors.

*Rightly, we have laws to protect discrimination for protected reasons such as race, colour or faith.

user1977

Indeed, the concept of "you're barred" predates CCTV being ubiquitous, and there's no special requirement for evidence to justify such decisions, which in theory could be completely arbitrary anyway.