Utility Warehouse back bill and bill hike

Reviewreader9

Robin9 said:

@Reviewreader9


Why didn't you go for UW's EV tariff and charge overnight ?

I didn’t know they had one. Plus, with it only being a hybrid, not fully electric, it really doesn’t use much to charge at all

QrizB

Sorry if you've already been asked these questions and have answered, but we've spent a lot of time talking about PHEVs and have skipped some of the basics.

- Do you have a smart meter?

- If you have a smart meter, do you have a working in-home display (IHD)?

- If you don't have a smart meter and IHD, would you be able to read your meter at about the same time every day for the next week or so to see how much electricity you use each day, on days when you do or don't charge your car?

GingerTim

Reviewreader9 said:

Robin9 said:

@Reviewreader9


Why didn't you go for UW's EV tariff and charge overnight ?

I didn’t know they had one. Plus, with it only being a hybrid, not fully electric, it really doesn’t use much to charge at all

But it has been established that it's costing you rather more (and unspecified amount) to charge the car than you assumed.

matt_drummer

Reviewreader9 said:

Robin9 said:

@Reviewreader9


Why didn't you go for UW's EV tariff and charge overnight ?

I didn’t know they had one. Plus, with it only being a hybrid, not fully electric, it really doesn’t use much to charge at all

If you drive a phev on electric only all of the time it will use more electricity than a full ev doing the same mileage.

This is because the phev has a small battery and is less efficient than a full ev, probably 50% of the efficiency of a full ev in general.

You have a small battery, you're carrying around a petrol engine that you don't use and the drive is going through a ice transmission that isn't necessary. It all makes them dreadfully inefficient.

PHEV's are a poor idea, the worst of both worlds.

Inefficient when running purely on electricity and you still have to go to a petrol station, all to save stopping to charge on the occasional long journey for most people.

It's a flawed concept, they ruin their batteries and only exist for people who can't commit to a full ev even though they like the idea of an electric vehicle, they just like the reassurance of the petrol engine in case they run out of electricity.

Then, charging your PHEV on standard rates of electricity just compounds the problem.

You say it doesn't take much to charge.

That is true, less than a full ev, but if you are charging it every day when a full ev would only need charging once a week to do the same journeys then it doesn't take much thought to work out that it uses more electricity overall.

200 miles a week at 4 miles/kWh in a full ev needs 50kWh of electricity.

The same 200 miles in a phev that only does 1.7 miles per kWh needs 118 kWh of electricity, more than double that of the full ev.

dunstonh

Reviewreader9 said:

Robin9 said:

@Reviewreader9


Why didn't you go for UW's EV tariff and charge overnight ?

I didn’t know they had one. Plus, with it only being a hybrid, not fully electric, it really doesn’t use much to charge at all

The current Mazda PHEVs with 39 mile range are 18kW.    Your meter readings are around 18kWh per day.   You say you plug it in most days.  

It is using more than you realise or are willing to accept.

Qyburn

Reviewreader9 said:

I didn’t know they had one. Plus, with it only being a hybrid, not fully electric, it really doesn’t use much to charge at all

It's already been shown that your hybrid, all on it's own, accounts for more electricity than most households use in total.

That's the same error, over and over again. Refusing to accept that something is contributing to your enormous electricity consumption. How many other energy guzzlers do you have that you're also discounting for no particular reason.

Robin9

Reviewreader9 said:

Robin9 said:

@Reviewreader9


Why didn't you go for UW's EV tariff and charge overnight ?

I didn’t know they had one. Plus, with it only being a hybrid, not fully electric, it really doesn’t use much to charge at all

You do now. That 118 kWh per week on your present tariff  (assume 25p)  is about £35;   on UW at its EV tariff (about 7p)  is about £10.

Bendo

I've no idea why these threads always descend straight to discussions about the OPs cars etc when the immediate issue is the bill and whether back billing applies.

It is the suppliers obligation to collect meter readings, how they do this is up to them, they can ask the customer to provide them, but that won't always happen so in those scenarios,  then they should send a meter reader to get a reading. Assuming the OP hasn't been unreasonable and denied access to a reader then it is quite clear the supplier has failed in their requirement to take readings.

Regardless of what they are staying, on the face of it as described in the OP, the back billing rules apply because the supplier has failed to ensure they have accurate reading. They chose to send estimated bills and they are fully aware of the risk that entails.

Push back, if they don't agree then take it to the ombudsmen.

That aspect dealt with,  get your usage down as suggested by others.

MattMattMattUK

Bendo said:

I've no idea why these threads always descend straight to discussions about the OPs cars etc when the immediate issue is the bill and whether back billing applies.

To establish whether back billing applies requires understanding of how the bills were created, when payments were made and if those bills are accurate. The OP suggests that their bills are too high and that has led to the first part of the issue, however it now appears that they energy usage is likely accurate. That then means people can start to work out whether back billing applies, payments that were made which can be used as an offset against etc.

Bendo said:

It is the suppliers obligation to collect meter readings, how they do this is up to them, they can ask the customer to provide them, but that won't always happen so in those scenarios,  then they should send a meter reader to get a reading. Assuming the OP hasn't been unreasonable and denied access to a reader then it is quite clear the supplier has failed in their requirement to take readings.

They should take a reading, or obtain one every year, or ideally move them to a smart meter. However it is worth establishing what has happened, estimates also have a factor on what is back billed or not as billed amounts on estimates still count as billed. 

Bendo said:

Regardless of what they are staying, on the face of it as described in the OP, the back billing rules apply because the supplier has failed to ensure they have accurate reading. They chose to send estimated bills and they are fully aware of the risk that entails.

Back billing does not automatically apply because billing was based on estimates, it is more nuanced than most people seem to understand, as is regularly pointed out on here, especially when it comes to payments previously made and how they can be offset. 

Bendo said:

Push back, if they don't agree then take it to the ombudsmen.

Or, first get a full picture with all the facts, rather than chunks of guesswork, understand if back billing applies or not, understand what is owed, then, if all that fails and the supplier does not apply back billing if it is relevant then take it to the ombudsman. The ombudsman only rules on evidence available, if a consumer just throws speculation at the ombudsman and says "I don't like this", then they will likely fail in their claim.

Bendo said:

That aspect dealt with,  get your usage down as suggested by others.

A significant chunk of the OP's usage is their PHEV, using that electricity to move the car rather than petrol is likely considerably cheaper, more so if they move to an EV tariff and load shift other usage, so again, a full picture before action would make the most sense.

dunstonh

5 pages of trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped by the looks of it.