Are removals services covered by Consumer Rights Act 2015?

lincroft1710

Tisiphone said:

I agree the sensible move is to get the piano and take action afterwards but I can't afford to and my relative is, understandably, not willing. He bought the piano very cheaply, though this model is sometimes sold for much more (and sometimes given away; it's not a wonderful instrument but it's quite a cool design and will fit where a standard upright won't).

If you still want the piano, I don't think you have an option. The removers certainly won't pay storage charges pending any court case being heard (which could be up to a year and it is not guaranteed your relative would win) and you would still have to get the piano moved. Which is why I think you have to find the money and get the piano moved now

Have you tried asking the removers if they would agree to a 50% refund as they failed to complete the job (I wouldn't normally suggest this but you are a t the moment "stuck between a rock and a hard place"

Tisiphone

lincroft1710 said:

Have you tried asking the removers if they would agree to a 50% refund as they failed to complete the job (I wouldn't normally suggest this but you are a t the moment "stuck between a rock and a hard place"

I see your point but I'm not going to do this.  I think it would weaken any case we have to make against him for the rest of the money and I'm sure he wouldn't go for it. There's an element of injured ego going on, his position has gone from " we might have been able to do it with the right info" to "no piano remover could ever and no sane person would have asked them to".

It occurs to me, the piano is mine and I have no contract with the place he's storing it, therefore they can't withhold it or bill me directly. I've had a more affordable quote from another remover (reviews checked and double checked!) and I might be able to do it.

lincroft1710

Tisiphone said:

lincroft1710 said:

Have you tried asking the removers if they would agree to a 50% refund as they failed to complete the job (I wouldn't normally suggest this but you are a t the moment "stuck between a rock and a hard place"

I see your point but I'm not going to do this.  I think it would weaken any case we have to make against him for the rest of the money and I'm sure he wouldn't go for it.

You won't know until you ask. He may well agree just to put a closure on the matter

It occurs to me, the piano is mine and I have no contract with the place he's storing it, therefore they can't withhold it or bill me directly. I've had a more affordable quote from another remover (reviews checked and double checked!) and I might be able to do it.

The storage company may have no legal standing in billing you directly, (or your relative as you don't have a contract with the remover) but they probably won't release the piano until they have been paid and if the remover won't pay them......... 

This is a situation where there will be no winners, and you are doing the right thing in getting another firm in to do the job. At least you will be able to advise the new firm on the access difficulties. 

Tisiphone

lincroft1710 said: This is a situation where there will be no winners, and you are doing the right thing in getting another firm in to do the job. At least you will be able to advise the new firm on the access difficulties. 

According to the other firm (plus two others), there are no access difficulties.

lincroft1710

Tisiphone said:

lincroft1710 said: This is a situation where there will be no winners, and you are doing the right thing in getting another firm in to do the job. At least you will be able to advise the new firm on the access difficulties. 

According to the other firm (plus two others), there are no access difficulties.

So there are no access difficulties, just that the access requires a 3 person team rather than a 2 person team

Tisiphone

lincroft1710 said:

Tisiphone said:

lincroft1710 said: This is a situation where there will be no winners, and you are doing the right thing in getting another firm in to do the job. At least you will be able to advise the new firm on the access difficulties. 

According to the other firm (plus two others), there are no access difficulties.

So there are no access difficulties, just that the access requires a 3 person team rather than a 2 person team

Well, one said it would be easier with two and one said he didn't need a photo to know he could do the job (obviously I sent him one anyway).  So who knows what the issue really was..... 

Okell

Tisiphone said:

lincroft1710 said:

Have you tried asking the removers if they would agree to a 50% refund as they failed to complete the job (I wouldn't normally suggest this but you are a t the moment "stuck between a rock and a hard place"

I see your point but I'm not going to do this.  I think it would weaken any case we have to make against him for the rest of the money and I'm sure he wouldn't go for it. There's an element of injured ego going on, his position has gone from " we might have been able to do it with the right info" to "no piano remover could ever and no sane person would have asked them to"...

I'm afraid you might very well end up having to pay to get the piano out of storage and get it moved to your flat by one of the other firms you've approached.  And then sue the original firm for breach of contract over the original failure to deliver as contracted.

Tisiphone said:

lincroft1710 said:

Have you tried asking the removers if they would agree to a 50% refund as they failed to complete the job (I wouldn't normally suggest this but you are a t the moment "stuck between a rock and a hard place"

... It occurs to me, the piano is mine and I have no contract with the place he's storing it, therefore they can't withhold it or bill me directly. I've had a more affordable quote from another remover (reviews checked and double checked!) and I might be able to do it.

I'd be concerned that you might not find it as easy as you think to get the piano released to you out of storage.  I suspect the storage facility won't release it until you pay them - whether they have a contract with you or not.  I'd be worried that you'd only get it without paying by getting a court order or something.

The only other approach I can think of is that you go back to the original firm and say something along the following lines:

=================================================

"We entered into a contract with you in good faith for you to  blah blah...

You have failed to provide the contracted service and we believe you are in breach of contract

Regarding your assertion that our "... quote form clearly requests that photos be provided and measurements taken to assess access accurately...", your quote form quite clearly does not ask for that information,  What it does ask for is blah blah.  See attached screenshot.  [attach a screenshot of what the quote form asks for]

You also never asked for any additional information during two telecons with us on [dates] and when we asked you 10 days before the job was due to be undertaken whether you needed further info, you never replied.

Your position would seem somewhat contradictory in that you are saying that you require photographs before you can give a quote, yet (1) you gave a quote without photographs and without asking for them, and (2) after we accepted your quote you were perfectly happy to accept the job without ever having seen or asked for any photographs.

Regarding your claim that "... upon arrival, it became clear that the access was unsafe for both our team and your instrument... ", this is not what your team said on the day.  You allocated a two man team to the job and they told us that the job could have been completed with an extra man (ie a three man team).  At no point did they indicate that there would have been any danger either of physical injury to themselves or of damage to the piano if three men had been allocated from the outset.

I have also now had quotes from three(?) other removal firms all three of whom have told me that the entrance to my flat should pose no unusual or unexpected difficulty to delivery of a piano.  At least one of them has offered to provide a statement in writing to that effect.

After your two man team failed to complete the delivery and you promised to find a solution [I'm not sure exactly what you thought would happen so put into your own words] I reasonably expected that you would make a second delivery attempt with the correct number of men, not that you would say that the job was too dangerous and that you would never have taken it on if you'd had further information - which you never asked for.

We are now in the position where we have paid [put in the details] for you to provide a service which you have failed to provide and which you refuse even to make a repeat attempt to provide.  To add insult to injury you are now trying to charge us with storage fees resulting directly from your own failure and refusal to carry out the contracted service.

[You then need to think carefully about what solution you want to this problem and put it into your own words.  eg do you want them to have a second go at delivery or do you want to release the piano to another firm of your choice?  Do you want to negotiate on the storage fees or do you flat out want to reject them? etc etc]

=======================================================

Put the above into your own words and fill in the details.  And wait and see if any other posters on here like @lincroft1710 have any comments on what I suggest.

I'm not a lawyer and I can't give you legal advice, but my layman's opinion is that the firm is in breach of contract.

If they should have had photos of the flat entrance before giving a quote then they should never have issued a quote or taken the job on in the first place.

Having failed to deliver with a two man team, they should have made a second attempt with more men.  The consumer Rights Act requires a service to be carried out with reasonable care and skill (I'd suggest that includes having the right number of men on the job) and you can require a repeat performance to the extent necessary to fulfil the contract.

However - having said all the above, I think the firm won't budge and that you will have to pay them to get it out of storage and you will have to sue them later to recover your losses.  If you do go down that route make it clear to them that you are only paying under protest to get the piano released and that you reserve the right to claim your losses back.

Good luck

lincroft1710

The only thing I would say is 1) it seems very lengthy and 2) might it look better as a time line e.g.

18 April 2025 completed and returned online form, no photos requested so none enclosed

19 April 2025 quote of £xxx received, accepted and as agreed sum of £xxx paid by bank transfer

etc 


OP, you must get your relative's agreement on any correspondence you send to the remover. I echo @Okell's comment, you must state plainly and clearly the solution your relative is seeking

Okell

lincroft1710 said:

The only thing I would say is 1) it seems very lengthy and 2) might it look better as a time line e.g.

18 April 2025 completed and returned online form, no photos requested so none enclosed

19 April 2025 quote of £xxx received, accepted and as agreed sum of £xxx paid by bank transfer

etc 


OP, you must get your relative's agreement on any correspondence you send to the remover. I echo @Okell's comment, you must state plainly and clearly the solution your relative is seeking

I agree ^

It is rather long but if the OP can succinctly get across the points that:

(1) the online quote form doesn't say that photos must be provided;

(2) the firm should not have issued a quote and taken the job on in the first place without photos if photos were required;

(3) they didn't send enough men to do the job;

(4) three other firms have said access isn't a problem; and 

(5) storage fees are only accumulating as a direct result of the firm's breach of contract in failing to provide the service and failure to re-attempt delivery

then the verbiage could be cut down.

And yes, a timeline might be a better way of expressing it

sheramber

By the same token that you say they cannot make you pay as there is no contract with you, they may not release the piano to you if there is no contract with you.