Is it worth appealing a PCN with POPLA?

csimy1234

Looking for Advice – POPLA Appeal or Not?

Hi everyone,

I’d really appreciate your thoughts on a situation I’ve found myself in regarding a PCN I received after parking at the Victoria Centre Car Park in Crewe.

I parked for a medical appointment and paid via the RingGo app. Unfortunately, my appointment ran over, and by the time I got the app notification warning me my session was about to expire, I was still in the appointment. I ended up overstaying by around 15 minutes.

When I got out of my appointment, I tried to buy another ticket via the app (4 minutes after it expired) but was blocked with this message:

"Sorry, we are unable to park you as the no return rule is in effect. Please refer to local signage for more details."

The problem is, there is no mention of a no return rule on the car park signage or in the terms and conditions listed on the operator's website. In fact, the the signage said refer to their website for full T&C's, yet on the website it says all the car park T&C's differ so please refer to the signage in the car park. So I was stuck — if I did buy another ticket using the ticket machine in the car park, I risked breaching a no return rule I couldn’t verify existed. If I didn’t pay, I’d technically be overstaying. I opted not to pay again and emailed the operator immediately to explain the situation and avoid a fine.

Fast forward — they’ve issued me a £100 PCN (£60 if paid within 14 days) and rejected my appeal. In their response, they bizarrely state they are not affiliated with RingGo, which is odd because on RingGo’s own website it clearly says:

“This rule [no return] is implemented by some councils and parking operators to prevent individuals from repeatedly parking in the same spot without leaving.”

So you're telling me a payment provider and a parking operator use the same system to issue and manage parking sessions but have zero affiliation or communication about the rules governing those sessions? I find that incredibly hard to believe. Surely RingGo can't invent a rule that isn't being passed down from the operator themselves?

I now have the option to escalate to POPLA. I feel like they’re deliberately vague to make it harder to challenge. I have asked them in the appeal and again after the rejection to clarify if there is a no return rule in effect in the car park but they have yet to respond. I have emailed Ring Go to get their take on it, still waiting to hear back.

The frustrating thing is, it does say on the signage that you get 15 minutes of free parking to buy your ticket. Unfrotnatly I paid the second I pulled into the care park. Had I waited 15 minutes and then paid, then this wouldn't have happened. I did ask in my appeal whether they would simply consider the 15 minutes to buy your ticket in lieu, so they just added it onto the end of my sessions, but of course as I expected they refused. 

So what do you all think? Is this worth appealing to POPLA, or should I pay the £60 and walk away? I really can't afford all the additional fees that they will add while I wait for the POPLA appeal to decide, especially if they reject it. I don't even know who much more than the £100 they will add if it goes over the 28 days. I feel like the whole system is rigged to instil fear so that you just feel pressured into paying the fine even though you might be innocent. 

Thanks in advance — I’d love to hear your views.

Gr1pr

Ringo is a 3rd party payment app, not the parking company   ( so like using PayPal for an ebay purchase   )

Which parking company is involved here  ?

Is the car park anything to do with the doctors   ? Or just a nearby handy but private car park   ?

If there is a good legal point to argue with at popla, then yes it's a good ADR option,  so no landowner authority or poor signage etc

I suspect that Popla will conclude that the pcn was correctly issued,  based on the account above,  which means that your arguments would be debated and adjudicated on in court,  if it went that far 

If you lost at popla they would state that the full £100 is due, no extra charges unless it was unpaid and went to powerless debt collectors , in which case the figure they would try to add is £70! So a notional but not true £170

csimy1234

Gr1pr said:

Ringo is a 3rd party payment app, not the parking company   ( so like using PayPal for an ebay purchase   )

Which parking company is involved here  ?

Is the car park anything to do with the doctors   ? Or just a nearby handy but private car park   ?

If there is a good legal point to argue with at popla, then yes it's a good ADR option,  so no landowner authority or poor signage etc

I suspect that Popla will conclude that the pcn was correctly issued,  based on the account above,  which means that your arguments would be debated and adjudicated on in court,  if it went that far 

If you lost at popla they would state that the full £100 is due, no extra charges unless it was unpaid and went to powerless debt collectors , in which case the figure they would try to add is £70! So a notional but not true £170

It's Retail Park LTD. 

Car park is nothing to do with the doctors and is just nearby. I never argued my case in my appeal that this was such and the fact of my not being able to extend my parking sessions because I was in the doctors. I guess that is all a matter of fact. The legal point I wanted to argue is that I wanted to pay for my extension but couldn't as I was left in an impossible position of fine for one reason (overstaying) or fine for returning in a no return rule car park, despite there being no signage saying it was a nor return rule car park. 

In hindsight, perhaps I should have bought a new ticket at the time when I got back to my car and when I got a PCN, it would be because of breaching a no return rule which wasn't signposted anywhere. I suppose the thing that makes my situation difficult if the fact that there is a third party payment provider involved and the reason I couldn't extend my parking session. 

Umkomaas

From memory, I haven't seen a previous parking case involving Retail Park Ltd (who, via directorships, are linked with Bank Park Ltd and UKPC). 

POPLA won't adjudicate on issues of mitigation, so you're looking for technical issues such as poor/missing/confusing signage, landowner contracts, PoFA compliance, BPA/IPC Code of Practice failures. 

Alternatively, ignore this stage, and the (powerless debt collector stage), and await a court claim, where a judge will be able to look at all aspects, both technical and mitigating. We will help you if you receive a claim - you could do a bit of advance prep by reading the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, which covers the court process. 

1505grandad

As above  -  also if possible can you post some pictures of the signs (i.e. contract with driver)?

fisherjim

Please stop calling this a "fine" it is merely an invoice for a contract you supposedly entered into, however from your explanation the contract dubious and impossible to comply with, why would you pay it

Gr1pr

I agree with your hindsight,  I always tell people that buying another ticket meaning that the whole stay on site was fully covered by 2 payments is much easier to argue if it goes further 

The parking company makes the contract via the signs onsite,  whereas a 3rd party payment app doesn't 

Coupon-mad

1505grandad said:

As above  -  also if possible can you post some pictures of the signs (i.e. contract with driver)?

I suspect the Retail Park Ltd sign did not offer RingGo but let's see a picture please @csimy1234

Win or lose at POPLA (or just ignore) ...no paying it!

csimy1234

1505grandad said:

As above  -  also if possible can you post some pictures of the signs (i.e. contract with driver)?

Here is the signage at the car park in question. 

prowla

They're always trying some new angle, aren't they.

fisherjim

Well that's confusing why did you pay with "Ringo" when the payment app you should have been using is Twin Pay, clearly stated on your photo, I fear you have used the wrong app and paid for the wrong car park?

That is The Market Car Park Twin Pay location 10.

The Victoria Centre Car park is Ringo location 2682731