Getting electric supply to garage across public highway for EV charging

FreeBear

Qyburn said:

At the moment it just say "a communication network". It doesn't say which one, nor say anything about creation of a single network secure and accurate enough for tax collection. Even if they went down this route it would be trivial to evade, not just with a granny lead but any portable charger.

Or if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, constructing a wall mounted EV charging point really isn't that difficult.

https://jamesfotherby.com/index-page/electric-vehicle-charger/

Or if you want to buy a kit -> https://www.openevse.com/

Qyburn

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of, a full power 7.4kW charger connecting to a generic "Commando" socket. https://thirdrockenergy.co.uk/collections/type-2-portable-chargers/products/type-2-ev-portable-charger-32a-variable-7-4kw-5-metre

Qyburn

FreeBear said:

Or if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, constructing a wall mounted EV charging point really isn't that difficult.

https://jamesfotherby.com/index-page/electric-vehicle-charger/

Just quickly skimmed it but isn't a 50A MCB oversized for 6sq.mm cable? And why fit an MCB then have to roll your own earth fault detection circuitry, instead of fitting an appropriate RCBO?

FreeBear

Qyburn said:

FreeBear said:

Or if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, constructing a wall mounted EV charging point really isn't that difficult.

https://jamesfotherby.com/index-page/electric-vehicle-charger/

Just quickly skimmed it but isn't a 50A MCB oversized for 6sq.mm cable? And why fit an MCB then have to roll your own earth fault detection circuitry, instead of fitting an appropriate RCBO?

Yes, a 50A MCB is too big for 6mm² cable. 32A would be more appropriate.

The earth fault detection circuit in an EV charger can be used to detect fused relay contacts. Not something that can be achieved with an RCD or RCBO.

born_again

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

You're again missing the fact that not all EV chargers are smart chargers and therefore do not have to comply with the regulation.

The regulations ensure charge points have smart functionality.

Regulation 3(1)(a) disagrees with you.

New Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations came into effect on 30 June 2022 and that means that ever since that date, all domestic smart ev chargers are smart as standard.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1467/part/2/made

QrizB

born_again said:

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

You're again missing the fact that not all EV chargers are smart chargers and therefore do not have to comply with the regulation.

The regulations ensure charge points have smart functionality.

Regulation 3(1)(a) disagrees with you.

New Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations came into effect on 30 June 2022 and that means that ever since that date, all domestic smart ev chargers are smart as standard.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1467/part/2/made

Those are the very same regulations we're discussing, and contain exactly the Regulation 3(1)(a) that excludes plug-in cable chargers from the requirement to be smart.

Grumpy_chap

Gerry1 said:

Pat38493 said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Probably although I am not sure how they will achieve this with home charging - they would have to put devices in the cars that report back how many KWH was taken and tax you on it (or charge fuel duty tax rates on all electricity used).

By law, home chargers must have a built in SIM that snitches how much electricity you've used and when you used it. 

News to me - I am not aware that my EV charger has this functionality.

Gerry1

Grumpy_chap said:

Gerry1 said:

Pat38493 said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Probably although I am not sure how they will achieve this with home charging - they would have to put devices in the cars that report back how many KWH was taken and tax you on it (or charge fuel duty tax rates on all electricity used).

By law, home chargers must have a built in SIM that snitches how much electricity you've used and when you used it. 

News to me - I am not aware that my EV charger has this functionality.

Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

Grumpy_chap

Gerry1 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Gerry1 said:

Pat38493 said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Probably although I am not sure how they will achieve this with home charging - they would have to put devices in the cars that report back how many KWH was taken and tax you on it (or charge fuel duty tax rates on all electricity used).

By law, home chargers must have a built in SIM that snitches how much electricity you've used and when you used it. 

News to me - I am not aware that my EV charger has this functionality.

Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

Why the persistently evasive answers?

How do I find out then?

Gerry1

Nothing evasive, just a logical statement.

The answer is very difficult to find explicitly.  My belief is that your charger will have had this functionality baked in unless it's old.  The regulations are clear as mud unless you're a lawyer, but it seems clear to me that all the stuff about sending and receiving information via a communications network, £250,000 fines, keeping records for 10 years etc is there for a reason, not just for the fun of it.

Duty on fuel is expected to have raised £24.3 billion in 2024/25.  It's not immediately clear how much of this relates to motor fuel, but as the rates are much higher and 20% VAT is added to the duty, the total is likely be even more.

Therefore the bottom line is that anyone who thinks that any government will happily forgo forever this vast amount will be unpleasantly surprised when most cars on the road are EVs and it's no cheaper than driving an ICE vehicle.