Getting electric supply to garage across public highway for EV charging

Gerry1

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Can you explain how they'll do that?

More likely they'll move to a per-mile charge and remove VED altogether.

The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021

Note that it can also be a digital version of this... 

Still doesn't explain how they'll recognise all EV charging and be able to tax it. 

Hint: Are all EV chargers smart chargers?

Same way that savings interest is taxed.  The banks and the building societies tell HMRC how much interest you've been paid, and HMRC sends you a bill or changes your tax code if tax is due.

MeteredOut

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Can you explain how they'll do that?

More likely they'll move to a per-mile charge and remove VED altogether.

The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021

Note that it can also be a digital version of this... 

Still doesn't explain how they'll recognise all EV charging and be able to tax it. 

Hint: Are all EV chargers smart chargers?

Same way that savings interest is taxed.  The banks and the building societies tell HMRC how much interest you've been paid, and HMRC sends you a bill or changes your tax code if tax is due.

You've still not explained how anyone would know how much of my electricity use is to charge my EV. Who is going to tell HMRC that, and how?

Gerry1

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Can you explain how they'll do that?

More likely they'll move to a per-mile charge and remove VED altogether.

The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021

Note that it can also be a digital version of this... 

Still doesn't explain how they'll recognise all EV charging and be able to tax it. 

Hint: Are all EV chargers smart chargers?

Same way that savings interest is taxed.  The banks and the building societies tell HMRC how much interest you've been paid, and HMRC sends you a bill or changes your tax code if tax is due.

You've still not explained how anyone would know how much of my electricity use is to charge my EV. Who is going to tell HMRC that, and how?

See 9 (1).

MeteredOut

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Can you explain how they'll do that?

More likely they'll move to a per-mile charge and remove VED altogether.

The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021

Note that it can also be a digital version of this... 

Still doesn't explain how they'll recognise all EV charging and be able to tax it. 

Hint: Are all EV chargers smart chargers?

Same way that savings interest is taxed.  The banks and the building societies tell HMRC how much interest you've been paid, and HMRC sends you a bill or changes your tax code if tax is due.

You've still not explained how anyone would know how much of my electricity use is to charge my EV. Who is going to tell HMRC that, and how?

See 9 (1).

You're again missing the fact that not all EV chargers are smart chargers and therefore do not have to comply with the regulation.

Gerry1

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Can you explain how they'll do that?

More likely they'll move to a per-mile charge and remove VED altogether.

The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021

Note that it can also be a digital version of this... 

Still doesn't explain how they'll recognise all EV charging and be able to tax it. 

Hint: Are all EV chargers smart chargers?

Same way that savings interest is taxed.  The banks and the building societies tell HMRC how much interest you've been paid, and HMRC sends you a bill or changes your tax code if tax is due.

You've still not explained how anyone would know how much of my electricity use is to charge my EV. Who is going to tell HMRC that, and how?

See 9 (1).

You're again missing the fact that not all EV chargers are smart chargers and therefore do not have to comply with the regulation.

The regulations ensure charge points have smart functionality.

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

You're again missing the fact that not all EV chargers are smart chargers and therefore do not have to comply with the regulation.

The regulations ensure charge points have smart functionality.

Regulation 3(1)(a) disagrees with you.

Scot_39

Pat38493 said:

Gerry1 said:

Bear in mind that cheap charging of EVs is only an introductory offer: the government won't be content to lose all that fuel duty forever.  When most cars are EVs and it's difficult or impossible to buy petrol cars then the electricity used to charge EVs will be taxed just as heavily as petrol.

A similar thing happened with self-charging EVs such as the Prius.  Early adopters were exempt from the London Congestion Charge but after a few years they found out it had been Bait and Switch.  They're also no longer exempt from VED.  

Probably although I am not sure how they will achieve this with home charging - they would have to put devices in the cars that report back how many KWH was taken and tax you on it (or charge fuel duty tax rates on all electricity used).

Or in the chargers - some of which already include the logging.

But the transport select committee has already recommended road charging - per mile - to replace fuel duty for electric vehicles  - so its a complex mix of how the current cash raised from cars etc - will be recovered.

(Edit Cash from fuel duty was around £40bn pre crisis - and VAT added over £10 billion on top - it really isnt something that the chancellor can afford to ignore as EVs replace ICE vehicles - even if only sub 5% already - when scrapping things like WFP to not save £1.4 bn)

And it would be easy to rate EVs differently from ICE.

A good start - would be to scrap 20% VAT on public chargers.  If home chargers only pay 5% why should public attract 20% ?

EVs are currently largely a middle classs and company car luxury until the inequality on charging is resolved.

And the public charging network - price and reliable availability when needed - is probably the single biggest obstacle to higher acceptance.

Gerry1

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

You're again missing the fact that not all EV chargers are smart chargers and therefore do not have to comply with the regulation.

The regulations ensure charge points have smart functionality.

Regulation 3(1)(a) disagrees with you.

The government disagrees with you.  In 3.2 they say that "A charge point must have smart functionality."  This includes the "Ability to send and receive information via a communications network."

HillStreetBlues

Gerry1 said:

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

MeteredOut said:

You're again missing the fact that not all EV chargers are smart chargers and therefore do not have to comply with the regulation.

The regulations ensure charge points have smart functionality.

Regulation 3(1)(a) disagrees with you.

The government disagrees with you.  In 3.2 they say that "A charge point must have smart functionality."  This includes the "Ability to send and receive information via a communications network."

From reading this thread, I feel others are pointing out that if a person uses a granny charger (or "dumb" charger that was previously sold) then there will be no record of an EV being charged.
You are correct, if you are just talking about having a new EV charging point installed and using that.

Qyburn

At the momentvit just say "a communication network". It doesn't say which one, nor say anything about creation of a single network secure and accurate enough for tax collection. Even if they went down this route it would be trivial to evade, not just with a granny lead but any portable charger.