Conflicting views around online dating

tghe-retford

I had a discussion with a work colleague today on dating apps and he told me of a different viewpoint that normally perpetuates through the Internet and the media. This was mirrored by several other people.

There are two viewpoints I see.

The first one is where you see most men being largely ignored on the apps, women get swamped with messages from men, companies making losses as people leave the apps because of burnout and disappointment as well as the realisation that to make money, they have to keep as many people as they can single.

The second one is that dating apps have been a positive revelation, that they are perfectly designed for dating, the best thing that ever happened to dating, they've worked exceptionally well for both filtering out individuals and getting dates on the regular (and this is from someone who rates himself as average and humble) and a successful relationship.

Two completely conflicting viewpoints so I thought I would ask the people of MSE what their views were, considering the forum members on here are likely to be a cross section of people who will more likely have a balanced and nuanced opinion one way or the other if either of these viewpoints match up with their reality or expectations.

Thanks in advance.

elsien

Not used them personally. 55 year old Sibling used paid for service on match.com after a divorce. 

Found a couple of matches who just wanted to have a good time, Including a complete bunny boiler which suited him down to the ground at the time. He has now found a permanent partner who he has been with for four years. 

His main issue was the slightly limited dating pool given that he lives in a more remote area of the country so a number of matches he already knew and didn’t want go there. 

KxMx

Female late 30's,they are a waste of time and destroy mental health, full of time wasters, voyeurs etc.

I spent 10 years off & on them, had 4/5 dates and one relationship which didn't last 5 months (I don't know why he was on a dating app tbh as he wouldn't make any room in his life for a relationship).

I'd never describe myself as beautiful but I am quite pretty, friendly and approachable with certain assets usually popular with men. 

Emmia

E-Harmony... Together for 14.5years and married for nearly 11. Very happy.

I did internet dating on and off for about 6 years before that on Match, Dating Direct and a couple of others. Had some great nights out,  and met some interesting people .  Plus a couple of relationships lasting a year or so, one of which I had a lucky escape from, and two where we parted as we wanted different things.

Would I do it again if I were single? Yes, why not.

How else do you meet people? Work is a terrible idea, and mining your friendship group is likely to have repercussions... 

BungalowBel

I have never used one (married 53 years!) but think they could be a good idea on how to meet people.  I even suggested it for my son once, but just after that he met his now fiancee, they have been together eighteen years.

I would say though, take sensible precautions like meeting somewhere public until you have got to know them , don't give them your address or landline number until you know them better.

Emmia

BungalowBel said:

I have never used one (married 53 years!) but think they could be a good idea on how to meet people.  I even suggested it for my son once, but just after that he met his now fiancee, they have been together eighteen years.

I would say though, take sensible precautions like meeting somewhere public until you have got to know them , don't give them your address or landline number until you know them better.

I used to have a burner SIM and specific email for dating. My other tip is no alcohol on a first date, definitely meet somewhere very public the first few times.

Smudgeismydog

After being widowed fairly young, and with 2 very young children, I found online dating to be the easiest way for me meet potential partners. 

I only used a paid site and will admit it was a mixed bag, so you need to put some tight criteria on and listen to your gut instinct, but have been with my partner (who I met online), for over 10 years.

tghe-retford

Emmia said:

How else do you meet people? Work is a terrible idea, and mining your friendship group is likely to have repercussions... 

This is the problem I have noticed. For the people who have talked to me about their experiences, meeting in the real world has become a social taboo. No-one wants to find someone at work for fear of HR or having to work with an ex. People don't approach in public either for fear of their safety or being put on blast on social media or facing the repercussions of an authority figure should your approach be taken with offence. There are no events or places for single people. When they are, it's pretty much all women attending as men are not attending them.

So for a lot of people, it's a case of the apps or life long loneliness. The colleague I mentioned in the OP said pretty much that thing.

Exodi

I'd remind that this forum skews older (over 2/3rds are 50+) so I'm not sure you'll achieve your objective of "a cross section of people who will more likely have a balanced and nuanced opinion".

What I mean by this is that there's a significant difference in experiences among people using match or e-harmony (popular with older people) than tinder (popular with younger people), for example.

I actually believe both viewpoints are correct. It's hard to deny women have better opportunity. This isn't red pill rhetoric, but based on the reality that men typically outnumber 3:1 on dating apps (on Tinder it's about 4:1). This imbalance allows women to take on a selective role, and in a vicious feedback loop, causes toxic behaviors like men resorting to swiping on everyone (turning it into a numbers game). This causes two problems, whereby it causes women to be even more selective, and also means that when matches occur, there may not even be genuine interest. There is endless data showing average men going through countless swipes without matching, and women conversely going through countless swipes without not matching.

As a man, I naturally look at things from a male perspective, but I would say I think the frustration from men that the selectivity women are afforded generally causes them to swipe on only the most attractive people is unfair. While that may be the case, in reality if the shoe was on the other foot, and men got matched every time they swiped on someone, you would obviously expect they would raise their standards.

Unfortunately I think this is a lose/lose all round, because women's experience dating up in turns of looks can be quite commonly one of disingenuous short term interest by their match (I'm sure you can interpret what I mean there).

I also think it's very common to see hypocritical men - ones that pine after an outgoing and in shape partner, but do not meet that bar themselves. This seems to be the outdated social dynamic where women are valued on their appearance while men are valued on their assets.

As to myself, I didn't use dating apps for too long when I was single, but when I did it was a mixed experience. I found it incredibly frustrating that it was common for your match to have no enthusiasm holding a conversation (it's fine if they're not interested, but I didn't understand the point in matching if you had no desire to get to know each other). I also lost count of how many profiles described themselves as 'strong and independent' but also had a strong interest in your financial circumstances? Once you accept that, the genuine connections were good - I went on a handful of dates, and met my wife (and mother to my first daughter) on there. It felt like we were two normal people in a sea of weirdos (that's how she described it to me too).

FWIW I used Hinge. I just couldn't grasp the idea of using Tinder where it's common to meet up with a stranger with the sole intention of having sex, call me a prude!

Of course, I appreciate I could have been lucky, but I also made an effort - I am active (go to the gym 3 times per week - have been for many years), dress well, etc. While I'd say I had an OK experience, I would accept that if you are average or below average on looks as a young male, you are likely to have a bad time.

tghe-retford

Exodi said:

I would accept that if you are average or below average on looks as a young male, you are likely to have a bad time.

Interesting and thought provoking post. What I have noted is that a lot of the "red pill rhetoric" is based behind the findings of evolutionary psychology. Concepts such as hypergamy (a.k.a. "women's experience dating up in turns of looks"), also known as the mating gap and assortative mating (where people match with a similar person) have come from that discipline.

The reason why I focused the quote on that last line is because these are the people who get forgotten. We base how we see things on the grounds of the winners - survivorship bias. But there are from commentary online, increasing numbers of people for whom are getting burnt out by dating and are quitting. Which went against the experience of what my work colleague was experiencing. I'd thought I would ask here as I'd avoid two typical sound-bytes that you get on the subject - either those jaded with dating and telling others not to engage in it or those who engage in never-ending positivity of finding a soul-mate when you least expect it.

chubsta

I used it well before it became a 'thing' and socially acceptable - at the time I had come out of a long relationship with someone who I worked with and didn't want to go down that route again ever! I used a paid-for service but felt really embarrassed about it and have never told anyone as there was a real stigma at the time and it was seen to be for 'losers'. I did, however, have a good experience, went on a few dates with some nice women before meeting my current partner of 20 years.

But society has changed so much now - I worked with a lot of young people and they were pretty much all on dating apps. A couple of girls showed me Tinder and it was crazy how they judged men - these were what you would call very attractive girls and I would imagine pretty much 'in demand' on these apps but they would just slag off pretty much all the men they saw on it, even those that I would consider far more attractive than I have ever been were just dismissed in a single swipe. I can't imagine how demoralising it is for 'normal' men to go through this, but I guess the same must happen to 'average' girls - social media has seemingly conditioned the young that physical perfection is all that matters and that physical perfection is based upon reality tv-stars and plastic surgery.

Unfortunately, I don't see many alternatives out there either - people don't socialise in the way they used to, where it was easy to meet new friends via old friends, and as others have said approaching someone at work in even the most respectful way can be a career-ender: one girl said to me that the difference between a 'creep' and a 'hottie' at work is usually their level in the management chain.

I'm certainly glad it is not something I will ever have to bother with again.