Platinum Weeks / UK Weeks

duff67

Grumpy_chap said:

duff67 said:

I'm not sure she has 'purchased anything'. No presentation, no signing up, no nothing apart from the first and subsequent mobile calls. Just paid quarterly for the right to, apparently, have 6 weeks of accommodation at a reduced price through the UK Weeks Travel Agent, which she has never used.

As there are no signatures she has provided (as far as I know to this point), I fail to see how she is liable for anything. Just guilty of believing sending money will make the phone calls go away.

So, she has purchased the right to have 6 weeks of accommodation / accommodation discount.
The fact she never used it does not mean she has not purchased it.

If I buy a laptop and it gets delivered but I never use the laptop but leave it in the dining room on table in the box, does that mean I have not purchased it?

I get that she has parted with money 'purchased/subscribed' to something. I was purely stating that she has not signed anything, nor had a presentation that determined her interest in 'purchasing/subscribing'. To my current knowledge, she had one phone call at the start and sent funds where she was told.

My original post was not seeking clarification of her actions; she has been gullible and will no doubt lose the funds she has been coerced into parting with. She will have to take the lesson. I was asking:

1) Does anyone know this scam/firm/operator - I want background before approach and also to learn if its worth contacting the firm (if it turns out to be legit with poor tel operators) as I'm under a duty to explore before approaching my sisters c/card company from where all the payments have been met.

2) Does the C/Card company have a duty of care to my sister, concerning these payments made?. I have requested a copy c/card statements from 2021, but wouldn't be surprised if it started earlier. 

I have so far received a couple of people who think it's a company that scams / or sharp practices those who are willing to be 'sharp practiced'. I will still try to contact their departments, but from those replies imagine it won't reap responsible fruit.

And a thought that the banks won't be held accountable, given the 'subscription' or 'payments'.

It's probably a loss on both fronts, but I wanted to ask if anyone had heard of this particular company and their methods, and if the c/card was covered under Section 75 down to the no signature act and forced repetition of approach.

I will make both calls next week (To the Company and C/Card) and update the post in case of interest.

duff67

Thanks to those who have seen and added comments.
It helps to get it out there as I cogitate actions 

powerful_Rogue

duff67 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

duff67 said:

I'm not sure she has 'purchased anything'. No presentation, no signing up, no nothing apart from the first and subsequent mobile calls. Just paid quarterly for the right to, apparently, have 6 weeks of accommodation at a reduced price through the UK Weeks Travel Agent, which she has never used.

As there are no signatures she has provided (as far as I know to this point), I fail to see how she is liable for anything. Just guilty of believing sending money will make the phone calls go away.

So, she has purchased the right to have 6 weeks of accommodation / accommodation discount.
The fact she never used it does not mean she has not purchased it.

If I buy a laptop and it gets delivered but I never use the laptop but leave it in the dining room on table in the box, does that mean I have not purchased it?

I get that she has parted with money 'purchased/subscribed' to something. I was purely stating that she has not signed anything, nor had a presentation that determined her interest in 'purchasing/subscribing'. To my current knowledge, she had one phone call at the start and sent funds where she was told.

My original post was not seeking clarification of her actions; she has been gullible and will no doubt lose the funds she has been coerced into parting with. She will have to take the lesson. I was asking:

1) Does anyone know this scam/firm/operator - I want background before approach and also to learn if its worth contacting the firm (if it turns out to be legit with poor tel operators) as I'm under a duty to explore before approaching my sisters c/card company from where all the payments have been met.

2) Does the C/Card company have a duty of care to my sister, concerning these payments made?. I have requested a copy c/card statements from 2021, but wouldn't be surprised if it started earlier. 

I have so far received a couple of people who think it's a company that scams / or sharp practices those who are willing to be 'sharp practiced'. I will still try to contact their departments, but from those replies imagine it won't reap responsible fruit.

And a thought that the banks won't be held accountable, given the 'subscription' or 'payments'.

It's probably a loss on both fronts, but I wanted to ask if anyone had heard of this particular company and their methods, and if the c/card was covered under Section 75 down to the no signature act and forced repetition of approach.

I will make both calls next week (To the Company and C/Card) and update the post in case of interest.

Contracts don't have to be signed to be legally binding.

When you ask if the credit card company have a duty of care, in what respect do you mean?

Grumpy_chap

duff67 said:

I get that she has parted with money 'purchased/subscribed' to something. I was purely stating that she has not signed anything, nor had a presentation that determined her interest in 'purchasing/subscribing'. To my current knowledge, she had one phone call at the start and sent funds where she was told.

While "signing something" may be the gold standard of proving a contract, if the paperwork says to sign but it is not signed yet all payments are made that can also be evidence of the contract existing - it merely requires offer and acceptance.  Offer from the company and acceptance by the payments being made.

It is also worth be aware that "signing something" does not these days require a piece of paper and a pen - it may have been an online portal signature such as Docusign (other online signature platforms are available).

duff67 said:

2) Does the C/Card company have a duty of care to my sister, concerning these payments made?. I have requested a copy c/card statements from 2021, but wouldn't be surprised if it started earlier. 

The CC is jointly and severally liable as the supplier if there has been a breach of contract.

At this stage, it seems as though you do not have sufficient information to establish that there has been a breach of contract.

duff67

powerful_Rogue said:

Contracts don't have to be signed to be legally binding.

When you ask if the credit card company have a duty of care, in what respect do you mean?

They don't - you are correct.

However, it is possible to challenge the legality of a contract (verbal) where the client is a victim of breaches of the consumer protection legislation, which could then render the contract void.

Factors that may void a contract include mistakes in presentation or misrepresentation, duress (where a business has pressured the consumer or used undue influence).

I will ask for a transcript of the original telephone call. Untrue statements could be that any investment will appreciate over time (although I don't think she has an asset here); Rights can be freely and easily exchanged or sold.

Broadly speaking, I understand that where a party can show that they have entered into an agreement (contract) with another party on the basis of fraud (eg, the business's deceit), the verbal contract is voidable (if one even exists). Difficult to establish, I know, but certainly a challenge could be inferred.

C/Card Company DOC - Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act covers misrepresentation in the sale of goods and services. It's down to interpretation in every case, but surely the regularity of a regular euro payment to a 'name that should ring alarm bells with the bank's due diligence department' should be questioned.

powerful_Rogue

duff67 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Contracts don't have to be signed to be legally binding.

When you ask if the credit card company have a duty of care, in what respect do you mean?

They don't - you are correct.

However, it is possible to challenge the legality of a contract (verbal) where the client is a victim of breaches of the consumer protection legislation, which could then render the contract void.

Factors that may void a contract include mistakes in presentation or misrepresentation, duress (where a business has pressured the consumer or used undue influence).

I will ask for a transcript of the original telephone call. Untrue statements could be that any investment will appreciate over time (although I don't think she has an asset here); Rights can be freely and easily exchanged or sold.

Broadly speaking, I understand that where a party can show that they have entered into an agreement (contract) with another party on the basis of fraud (eg, the business's deceit), the verbal contract is voidable (if one even exists). Difficult to establish, I know, but certainly a challenge could be inferred.

C/Card Company DOC - Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act covers misrepresentation in the sale of goods and services. It's down to interpretation in every case, but surely the regularity of a regular euro payment to a 'name that should ring alarm bells with the bank's due diligence department' should be questioned.

But you need to prove fraud/misrepresentation etc.

I can imagine they probably won't hold the recording of the call from 4+ years ago.

duff67

powerful_Rogue said:

duff67 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Contracts don't have to be signed to be legally binding.

When you ask if the credit card company have a duty of care, in what respect do you mean?

They don't - you are correct.

However, it is possible to challenge the legality of a contract (verbal) where the client is a victim of breaches of the consumer protection legislation, which could then render the contract void.

Factors that may void a contract include mistakes in presentation or misrepresentation, duress (where a business has pressured the consumer or used undue influence).

I will ask for a transcript of the original telephone call. Untrue statements could be that any investment will appreciate over time (although I don't think she has an asset here); Rights can be freely and easily exchanged or sold.

Broadly speaking, I understand that where a party can show that they have entered into an agreement (contract) with another party on the basis of fraud (eg, the business's deceit), the verbal contract is voidable (if one even exists). Difficult to establish, I know, but certainly a challenge could be inferred.

C/Card Company DOC - Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act covers misrepresentation in the sale of goods and services. It's down to interpretation in every case, but surely the regularity of a regular euro payment to a 'name that should ring alarm bells with the bank's due diligence department' should be questioned.

But you need to prove fraud/misrepresentation etc.

I can imagine they probably won't hold the recording of the call from 4+ years ago.

Data protection (GDPR) states that all paperwork (digital or not) and in this case verbal,  relating to sales must be kept for a period of up to 6/7 years.

I'm banking on them not having it, as it will strengthen a claim of non-compliance.

However, as we have established, they do not follow UK or Spanish rules, hence the c/card company comes in (who do).

it's a long shot, but why sit back and not fight??

Grumpy_chap

duff67 said:

Data protection (GDPR) states that all paperwork (digital or not) and in this case verbal,  relating to sales must be kept for a period of up to 6/7 years.

Citation please.

My understanding of GDPR is the exact opposite - that information must only be retained for the minimum period that is required.

What I do suspect is that any company you contact about this, whether the provider or the CC, will cite GDPR as reasons they cannot liaise with you and will only communicate with your sister.

duff67 said:

C/Card Company DOC - Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act covers misrepresentation in the sale of goods and services. It's down to interpretation in every case, but surely the regularity of a regular euro payment to a 'name that should ring alarm bells with the bank's due diligence department' should be questioned.

duff67 said:

However, as we have established, they do not follow UK or Spanish rules, hence the c/card company comes in (who do).

It was not obvious from earlier in the thread that these were payments made in Euros to a Spanish company.
That changes the consumer rights legislation that may apply.

As for making a claim to the CC before you actually have all the facts could well backfire.  At this stage you do not really know how much has been paid for what and when.  The CC will struggle to interpret such a vague request.

The regularity of the payments may actually work against your sister, particularly as these seem to be manual payments in each occasion.  The payments do not seem to have been set up as regular, automated transactions under continuous authority.  If your sister was not pleased with the product / service provided for the previous payments, why would she continue to make further payments?

I also suspect that S75 claim would need to be an individual claim in respect of every payment and not one claim covering all the payments made over the 5-years or so.
To be successful, it would be necessary to establish a breach of contract / rights for each individual payment.  That would mean knowing the details of each payment, what it was to cover and the way in which there has been a breach.

As for the CC questioning the payments to "a name that should ring alarm bells" it is not clear what you really expect the CC to do or be able to do.  AIUI, CCs do not have direct control over the companies for whom they process payments.  This is a function of the central payment processors - VISA and MASTERCARD - and the individual consumer CCs simply process as per the assessment by the central processors.

powerful_Rogue

duff67 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

duff67 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Contracts don't have to be signed to be legally binding.

When you ask if the credit card company have a duty of care, in what respect do you mean?

They don't - you are correct.

However, it is possible to challenge the legality of a contract (verbal) where the client is a victim of breaches of the consumer protection legislation, which could then render the contract void.

Factors that may void a contract include mistakes in presentation or misrepresentation, duress (where a business has pressured the consumer or used undue influence).

I will ask for a transcript of the original telephone call. Untrue statements could be that any investment will appreciate over time (although I don't think she has an asset here); Rights can be freely and easily exchanged or sold.

Broadly speaking, I understand that where a party can show that they have entered into an agreement (contract) with another party on the basis of fraud (eg, the business's deceit), the verbal contract is voidable (if one even exists). Difficult to establish, I know, but certainly a challenge could be inferred.

C/Card Company DOC - Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act covers misrepresentation in the sale of goods and services. It's down to interpretation in every case, but surely the regularity of a regular euro payment to a 'name that should ring alarm bells with the bank's due diligence department' should be questioned.

But you need to prove fraud/misrepresentation etc.

I can imagine they probably won't hold the recording of the call from 4+ years ago.

Data protection (GDPR) states that all paperwork (digital or not) and in this case verbal,  relating to sales must be kept for a period of up to 6/7 years.

I'm banking on them not having it, as it will strengthen a claim of non-compliance.

However, as we have established, they do not follow UK or Spanish rules, hence the c/card company comes in (who do).

it's a long shot, but why sit back and not fight??

No it doesn't.

user1977

There’s no GDPR obligation to record (let alone transcribe) every phone call with customers.