Job centre registered me as not gainfully self employed, is this wise?

textbook

My transistional protection/first year start up help ends in two days and I just had an interview with a work coach at jobcentre.    As I've been working paye for last three months 37 hrs and getting no money off dwp whilst doing this job I said from now (hopefully today it will be recorded) that my dominant job is paye not self employment?   I heard when the year ends of first year transistional protection you're entitled to nothing self employed but if you lose your paye job you can still claim universal credit.  Was this a smart move?

I'm concerned that if I get ill or have surgery I will need to claim it.

NedS

When someone is both employed PAYE and are also self employed, the job centre must decide which is your main employment. As you are currently working full time PAYE, it sounds like they have decided this is currently your main employment, not your self employment. How many hours per week are you currently working on your self-employment and what is your monthly self-employed income at present?

If your circumstances change, they will reassess this as and when that happens. For example, if the PAYE full time job ended, and you were again working on a self employed basis, then they may decide this is now your main employment and you are gainfully self employed.

Newcad

Just another question that may be relevant here.

You mention 12 months TP,  that's a savings/capital disregard for those migrating from Tax Crefits - so do you actually have savings/capital of above £16k? (Or have you misunderstood what the 12 months is about).

Spoonie_Turtle

Pros: no Minimum Income Floor

Cons: if your PAYE income drops below a certain threshold (e.g. if you lose your job, or cut down hours) you'd be treated as a jobseeker and required to attend appointments and look for (more) work.


Although if your earnings are nilling your UC claim it'll close after six consecutive months of no payment anyway.  If things were to change then upon reclaiming they'd have to decide again whether you were gainfully self-employed or not - if yes then the MIF would apply (unless we're talking 5+ years down the road with a different form of self-employment), if no then you'd be treated as a jobseeker as above.

textbook

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Pros: no Minimum Income Floor

Cons: if your PAYE income drops below a certain threshold (e.g. if you lose your job, or cut down hours) you'd be treated as a jobseeker and required to attend appointments and look for (more) work.


Although if your earnings are nilling your UC claim it'll close after six consecutive months of no payment anyway.  If things were to change then upon reclaiming they'd have to decide again whether you were gainfully self-employed or not - if yes then the MIF would apply (unless we're talking 5+ years down the road with a different form of self-employment), if no then you'd be treated as a jobseeker as above.

But after the 12 months transistional protection period you get nothing from government apparently if self employed and earn zero.  The government doesn't like self employed people.   BUT if you lose your paye job u can claim the dole or top up if low income.  This is why I registered paye as my main job when only 2 days left of my one year transistional protection. 

Someone mentioned I might not understand one year transistional protection.  They might get right

NedS

textbook said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Pros: no Minimum Income Floor

Cons: if your PAYE income drops below a certain threshold (e.g. if you lose your job, or cut down hours) you'd be treated as a jobseeker and required to attend appointments and look for (more) work.


Although if your earnings are nilling your UC claim it'll close after six consecutive months of no payment anyway.  If things were to change then upon reclaiming they'd have to decide again whether you were gainfully self-employed or not - if yes then the MIF would apply (unless we're talking 5+ years down the road with a different form of self-employment), if no then you'd be treated as a jobseeker as above.

But after the 12 months transistional protection period you get nothing from government apparently if self employed and earn zero.  The government doesn't like self employed people.   BUT if you lose your paye job u can claim the dole or top up if low income.  This is why I registered paye as my main job when only 2 days left of my one year transistional protection. 

This is not technically correct. It has nothing to do with transitional protection. After 12 months (referred to as a start up period), a gainfully self-employed person is expected to be earning the equivalent of minimum wage. This is referred to as the Minimum Income Floor (MIF). If someone is gainfully self-employed, earnings equal to the MIF amount will be assumed in each assessment period and any entitlement to UC will be calculated based on these assumed earnings. If after making deductions for earnings equivalent to the MIF, you still have some entitlement to UC then you still receive UC. Whether this is the case will depend on your circumstances. If these earnings NIL your UC award, then the claim will close after 6 months of NIL UC entitlement.

If you are genuinely self-employed and unable to earn minimum wage after a 12 month start up period, you are free to terminate your self-employment and look for a regular job that does pay minimum wage.

textbook

I submitted my last self employed income and expenses 10 days late.  Guess sanctioned.  But earning too much with paye to get anything anyhow

huckster

No claimant is sanctioned due to self-employed earnings being reported too late.  Before a UC statement can be issued, the self-employment income and expenses to-do has to be completed before the UC statement can be issued.

yodiyo

To clarify, if you have your 12-month startup as gainfully self-employed and at the end of that time you are not earning enough, your UC benefits will be calculated on an assumed minimum income floor.

However, is it just a case of saying that you are no longer self-employed? You are unemployed, a job seeker - and then you can get UC based on actual income even if zero.

Is this correct?

huckster

No, that appears to be attempted benefit fraud by false declaration. Job Centre/UC would need to see proof that self employment had ended. And if no proof is provided, then the minimum income floor would continue to be applied.

Some people struggle with earning from self employment and they try to convince Job Centre their self employment has ended, when in fact they are still working as self employed. It is just they are trying to avoid minimum income floor. 

If self employment has not worked out, then this should be stopped and evidence of this made available e.g notification to HMRC, closure of any websites, notifications to clients that business has closed, provision of Bank statements and accounts showing self employed earnings have stopped.

And if evidence of self employment ending is accepted by Job Centre, a Claimant Commitment would then need to be agreed that 100% of time was being spent on finding normal employment, with regular work search appointments arranged at Job Centre until work obtained.

If self employed work of the same type is started again and no employed earnings are being received, the minimum income floor would be applied again with immediate effect.