Standing Charges: Gas & Electricity

The_Green_Hornet

Has anyone changed their point of view yet?

Marvel1

Thinking this for myself as I'm a low user for gas.

For gas since 22nd Match I have used 5 units = 56 kWh

Need to work it out against the current tariff and for electric online with Utilita

wrf12345

"Need to work it out against the current tariff and for electric online with Utilita"

Electric may be ok but their gas rate is extremely high for the first two units to compensate for the many people who only use gas over the winter.

QrizB

Electric may be ok but their gas rate is extremely high for the first two units to compensate for the many people who only use gas over the winter.

That's incorrect.

The gas rate is high for the first two kWh of the day to cover the standing charge due that day. There's nothing in the tariff that would result in you paying extra to cover costs from other seasons.

MattMattMattUK

The_Green_Hornet said:

Has anyone changed their point of view yet?

When I very first looked at standing charges I thought that they did not really make sense (admittedly I was 15), but once I looked at what they actually make up, how they are constructed, how they are there to cover (some) of the fixed cost of the network etc. then I realised that they are the only rational, logical approach. Fixed costs are attributed to the Standing Charge, variable costs are attributed to the unit rate. 

I have also noticed that for some this appears to be a very emotive subject, where they claim "fairness" but what they actually means is "I want someone else to pay" and "I want to be subsidised at the expense of others". That is not a rational or "fair" position, I would have more respect for them if they at least had the decency to be honest about that.

matelodave

Generally you end up paying the equivalent of the standing charge for the first two kwh per day, so unless you expect to use less than 730kwh or gas and 730kwh electricity a year then a zero s/c tariff is likely to cost you about the same as any other assuming that the rest of the kwh cost the same as a standard tariff.

looking at the Utilita rates for where I live compared with my Eon tariff  the Utilita no standing charge tariff would cost me around £45 more for just 730kwh of leccy a year. (as we use ten times that amount of electricity a no-standing charge tariff would be out of the question)

Dunno about gas as we dont have it, but it does show that you really need to be an extremely low user (less than 2kwh a day) and to do your sums to see if you would benefit from a zero standing charge. 

The_Green_Hornet

MattMattMattUK said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

Has anyone changed their point of view yet?

When I very first looked at standing charges I thought that they did not really make sense (admittedly I was 15), but once I looked at what they actually make up, how they are constructed, how they are there to cover (some) of the fixed cost of the network etc. then I realised that they are the only rational, logical approach. Fixed costs are attributed to the Standing Charge, variable costs are attributed to the unit rate. 

I have also noticed that for some this appears to be a very emotive subject, where they claim "fairness" but what they actually means is "I want someone else to pay" and "I want to be subsidised at the expense of others". That is not a rational or "fair" position, I would have more respect for them if they at least had the decency to be honest about that.

From what I observe on the many threads on this subject both sides of the argument claim "fairness" but then I'm not emotionally attached one way or another.

HillStreetBlues

The_Green_Hornet said:

MattMattMattUK said:

The_Green_Hornet said:

Has anyone changed their point of view yet?

When I very first looked at standing charges I thought that they did not really make sense (admittedly I was 15), but once I looked at what they actually make up, how they are constructed, how they are there to cover (some) of the fixed cost of the network etc. then I realised that they are the only rational, logical approach. Fixed costs are attributed to the Standing Charge, variable costs are attributed to the unit rate. 

I have also noticed that for some this appears to be a very emotive subject, where they claim "fairness" but what they actually means is "I want someone else to pay" and "I want to be subsidised at the expense of others". That is not a rational or "fair" position, I would have more respect for them if they at least had the decency to be honest about that.

From what I observe on the many threads on this subject both sides of the argument claim "fairness" but then I'm not emotionally attached one way or another.

Agreed.
Both sides can be as bad as each other claiming the moral high ground.

Scot_39

wrf12345 said:

"Need to work it out against the current tariff and for electric online with Utilita"

Electric may be ok but their gas rate is extremely high for the first two units to compensate for the many people who only use gas over the winter.

Ave gas sc / 2 = c16.3 plus.

So yes add c7p to c16.3p = c23.3p etc and yes it is a higher uplift in multiplier sense - as over trebled.

Wheras with electric at current ave adding c54p/2 = c27p to c27p - doubling.

Oops those are DD rates - prepay ?

They may feel the need to add more - as still have fixed costs to pay - external and internal - for days when people use less than their 2kW.

I seem to remember their was a slight uplift if paid the full 2kWh every day - but not as much as I might have expected - but that was pre tdcv changes.

But cap prepay has changed a lot since then.

For many even in summer (no heating) occupied properties most would use more than 2kWh gas to heat hot water - but others with a bit of effort could avoid some days - particularly if had a tank system - but then 1-2kWh plus tank losses would cost 1-2 units of gas.

WibbleBaaaaaa

The standing charge is a utter mess alright, and i suspect some suppliers are fleecing consumers with them, as that has been only highlighted recently by the fact that up here in Glasgow BG are offering a SC down at 51p, but octopus have kept the 64p on some of their tariff, now excuse me for being dim, but if the sc is based on transmission costs, then pray tell how octopus can offer me 2 tariffs, one with a 64p sc and one with a 55p sc, do octopus have a second set of cheaper cables coming into my home that they can switch me to if i chose the 55p sc tariff????...........but i suspect some are simply war profiteering from them at this point because as we all know, when things rise in cost they go up instantly, but come down like a feather in a updraft.