Transferable nil rate band query

LotusSpanner

I would be grateful for some help with this please.

My mother in law passed away on the 3rd Feb 2025

(1)  We are applying via iht402 to use the TNRB from her first husband who died in 1977.
We believe his whole estate passed to his widow but because it was so long ago we are not able to document this.

(2)  Her second husband died in 2001 and there is 37% TNRB available.

If we submit (1) above and it is rejected are we subsequently able to submit a second iht402 for (2) above.

Thanks in anticipation.

Keep_pedalling

What is the total value of her estate? Was probate applied for on her first husbands estate?

LotusSpanner

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Value of the estate is about £920,000

We have a copy of the probate registry form from the first husbands estate but no other details (neither apparently do HMRC).
This shows values of £237701 (gross) and £234701 (net).
Mother in law was adamant that the estate went to her and she subsequently set up trusts for her two daughters,

Thanks

Keep_pedalling

LotusSpanner said:

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Value of the estate is about £920,000

We have a copy of the probate registry form from the first husbands estate but no other details (neither apparently do HMRC).
This shows values of £237701 (gross) and £234701 (net).
Mother in law was adamant that the estate went to her and she subsequently set up trusts for her two daughters,

Thanks

It sounds like he died intestate otherwise there would have been a copy of the will to download from the probate office. If this is the case she would not be entitled to the entire estate unless everything was owned jointly. The intestacy laws were quite different back then. She would have been entitled to all his chattels plus the first £15k or £25k (depending on the exact date of his death) plus a life interest in 50% of the rest. The other 50% would go to the children (which is where those trusts might have come in).

Back then a spouse would not necessarily inherit everything even if there were no children as some could go to parents or siblings.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm12122

LotusSpanner

Okay, thanks for that.  Very helpful background info.

If we do try for the first husband's TNRB and we fail, is it possible to resubmit using the second husbands reduced TNRB.

Any thoughts or experience on this please?

Keep_pedalling

LotusSpanner said:

Okay, thanks for that.  Very helpful background info.

If we do try for the first husband's TNRB and we fail, is it possible to resubmit using the second husbands reduced TNRB.

Any thoughts or experience on this please?

In situations like this you can actually claim from both previous spouses if both of them used up some of their NRB you would just have to submit two IHT 402s, so this may be the best approach. 

https://trustsdiscussionforum.co.uk/t/claiming-more-than-one-iht-threshold-if-double-widowed/19277

poseidon1

LotusSpanner said:

I would be grateful for some help with this please.

My mother in law passed away on the 3rd Feb 2025

(1)  We are applying via iht402 to use the TNRB from her first husband who died in 1977.
We believe his whole estate passed to his widow but because it was so long ago we are not able to document this.

(2)  Her second husband died in 2001 and there is 37% TNRB available.

If we submit (1) above and it is rejected are we subsequently able to submit a second iht402 for (2) above.

Thanks in anticipation.

You may benefit from having a read of the thread below from the STEP trust discussion forum (always useful to see how estate professionals approach these matters ).

It appears one can make multiple claims ( within the same application ), as long as the aggregate does not exceed the NRBs for one person.

https://trustsdiscussionforum.co.uk/t/claiming-more-than-one-iht-threshold-if-double-widowed/19277

In your scenario, and as indicated by Keep_pedalling you may have an issue with the first husband in ascertaining the extent of the exempt legacy in favour of  the deceased MIL  and therefore the calculation of  the percentage of his NRB  available if he did  indeed  die intestate in 1977.  

Whether HMRC would accept unsupported assumptions as to what actually occurred in 1977 is questionable, but I suppose there is nothing to lose in trying.

Keep_pedalling

poseidon1 said:

LotusSpanner said:

I would be grateful for some help with this please.

My mother in law passed away on the 3rd Feb 2025

(1)  We are applying via iht402 to use the TNRB from her first husband who died in 1977.
We believe his whole estate passed to his widow but because it was so long ago we are not able to document this.

(2)  Her second husband died in 2001 and there is 37% TNRB available.

If we submit (1) above and it is rejected are we subsequently able to submit a second iht402 for (2) above.

Thanks in anticipation.

You may benefit from having a read of the thread below from the STEP trust discussion forum (always useful to see how estate professionals approach these matters ).

It appears one can make multiple claims ( within the same application ), as long as the aggregate does not exceed the NRBs for one person.

https://trustsdiscussionforum.co.uk/t/claiming-more-than-one-iht-threshold-if-double-widowed/19277

In your scenario, and as indicated by Keep_pedalling you may have an issue with the first husband in ascertaining the extent of the exempt legacy in favour of  the deceased MIL  and therefore the calculation of  the percentage of his NRB  available if he did  indeed  die intestate in 1977.  

Whether HMRC would accept unsupported assumptions as to what actually occurred in 1977 is questionable, but I suppose there is nothing to lose in trying.

As the exact net probate value is known (£234,701) applying the intestacy rules and the NRB at the date of death should give the worst case amount that would have used, which I would have thought HMRC could not really argue about.

LotusSpanner

Thanks for all the help.
I will look into the suggested forum and will leave feedback when everything is decided!