WIll Natwest help my brother?

Birminghamboy

sourcrates said:

Birminghamboy said:.

I agree that it is an extreme response and certainly not how I would respond however this is all linked to his poor mental health. He had a terrible breakdown and things were made worse by a car accident and the the death of our father. He has really struggled to pull him self back up so this is just something else to worry about. 

I would mention this in the complaint, it will go towards strengthening your case for a positive outcome.

We’ve been through everything this morning and it’s crystal clear that he’s never received a default notice. Not once. I’m wondering if it’s just an admin error? 

Birminghamboy

MattMattMattUK said:

Birminghamboy said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Birminghamboy said:

Good Morning, 

I have been doing some more digging around and have a few questions - didn't want to start another thread though. 

1. So, the account that we are talking about if a Newday account. It is initially a Debenhams store card, but I think that Newday took over some years ago. It's definitely FCA regulated so am I right in assuming that the legal default notice should still have been sent out?

2. The  'notice of intention to file a default letter' was sent out in April 2024. I now understand that this does not supersede or replace the need for the default notice that they haven't sent.  Brother's account was full up to date last summer, so AFTER this letter was sent. Surely any 'new' arrears would have required a further notice to be sent? Newday have confirmed that nothing has been sent regarding a default since April 2024. 

I have found some examples on the Financial ombudsman website where customers have had their default markers removed due to not receiving a default notice. I am hopeful that this will be the case for my brother, especially as Newday have said that they haven;t  sent it. The lady on the phone yesterday actually said "for transparency, I don't think that a default notice has been sent" This view was also shared by the other member of staff that we spoke to. 

My brother is in a massive state of anxiety over this and I am desperate to resolve this for him

I think in light of this it might make sense to just move on and focus on clearing the debts. From the sound of it the default notice will have little if any real impact based on the various missed payment, late payment, general debt etc. all recorded in his credit report. It seems you (or he) are focusing excessively on this one default as a distraction from the overall situation. What are you actually hoping to achieve by expending all this effort on a default marker, because being realistic with the other red flags on his credit file it is unlikely he will have access to additional credit for many months if not a few years with or without the default.

Hi, the main issue is that having a default impacts his line of work. He is hoping to return to his usual career soon as this will impact that significantly. 

Does he work in financial services? If he does then his wider financial situation may have an impact regardless. To work in much of banking for example a certain number of missed or late payments are almost as much of an issue as a default notice. They use a scoring metric which is very easy to breach once those markers start hitting as it is designed to show signs of financial distress.

Birminghamboy said:
I also feel that it;s really unfair of an established company to not follow a legal requirement and that this has caused my brother massive distress and anxiety. 

The legislation specifically states not that a default notice is always required but "where a default notice is required under the CCA", firstly are you sure that this is a situation where it does apply and secondly I am not sure that the previous default notice which you said was issued would not cover them regardless. Note that many lenders issue "default notices" as a way to try and get people to pay, not because they are specifically required in all situations. 

On a slight side note, is your brother receiving professional help for his depression and anxiety issues? If not I would really recommend he speaks to his GP.

Yes he does - well he did but he is planning to return to that career path now. He seems to think that a default will be an absolute no go. 

Birminghamboy

I must admit this weekend has been totally consumed by this and I am knackered!

Hoping to speak to the complaints department tomorrow to see if they can look at it quickly given his mental health ( they are already aware of this). 

I have also found a similar case that the ombudman upheld that I am hoping we can use to swing things in his favour-  https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN8220712.pdf

I have looked at his last statement ( May) and it does include a sums of arrears letter but no default notice, so I am feeling fairly confident that they will remove the default.

Birminghamboy

So the saga continues, and I would welcome your thoughts on whether or not you think this company are acting fairly....

So we spoke to the complaints department this morning - they agreed to expedite the complaint due to the distress it's causing, which we appreciate. 

Here is what I would like your thoughts on....

So, they sent him a letter of notification of intention to log a default in April 2024. This is not disputed, however he brought his account back up to date AFTER this letter. I have a copy of his October 2024 statement which shows his account up to date with them only requesting the normal minimum payment on the next payment due date. He did fall back into arrears after October BUT the company never issued a further letter of intention to issue a default, nor did they send an official default notice. 

Given that he brought his account back up to date after April 2024, surely the letter that was sent before this can longer stand, and that a new letter should have been issued regarding his recent arrears, with a legal default notice?

The person on the phone seemed to think that the April 2024 letter might still stand. It seems unfair though that they would issue a default 14 months after sending the letter, especially as the account had been brought up to date in that time?

Again, if this was me it wouldn't be such a big deal, but it is for him and as a result, my life is impacted too!

MattMattMattUK

So I did some reading out of curiosity and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole. Needless to say the default notice is required ahead of "recovery action", but I cannot find any reference in the legislation for a default notice being required to report a default to a CRA. That is not hugely surprising because the legislation is over fifty years old and the recent amendments only relate to the terminology and layout of default notices, not the process of action. 

As such unless anyone can specifically point to a specific section of legislation or case law then I am not sure that the Financial Ombudsman decision you reference (DRN8220712) sets any meaningful precedent (and indeed if NewDay took it to court they could well have won, it is unclear if they did after that decision was made, though I cannot find any reference to a relevant court case), though it is almost certainly worth raising a complaint, citing the previous Ombudsman decision and seeing where it goes as you have nothing to do lose by doing so. 

Birminghamboy

MattMattMattUK said:

So I did some reading out of curiosity and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole. Needless to say the default notice is required ahead of "recovery action", but I cannot find any reference in the legislation for a default notice being required to report a default to a CRA. That is not hugely surprising because the legislation is over fifty years old and the recent amendments only relate to the terminology and layout of default notices, not the process of action. 

As such unless anyone can specifically point to a specific section of legislation or case law then I am not sure that the Financial Ombudsman decision you reference (DRN8220712) sets any meaningful precedent (and indeed if NewDay took it to court they could well have won, it is unclear if they did after that decision was made, though I cannot find any reference to a relevant court case), though it is almost certainly worth raising a complaint, citing the previous Ombudsman decision and seeing where it goes as you have nothing to do lose by doing so. 

thank you! I'm exchausted!

sourcrates

I`d stop looking too deeply into this and allow things to take their course, the FOS decides these matters on an individual basis, so the outcome of a similar complaint may not be the same for you.

ManyWays

I agree with @MattMattMattUK. A default under the Concumer Credit Act requires a Default Notice in the prescribed terms to have been issued and the breach not have been remedied, it is a legal requirement before court action is started for CCA agreements; a default on your credit record is governed by the principles of credit reporting which make no reference to the CCA, they simply look at how far in arrears a debt is. And in common parlance, people often say default when they mean a missed payment, which is another totally different usage. 

So its unfortunate and confusing that the term "default" is used for very different things. And the Financial Ombudsman often makes inconsistent decisions about this which doesnt help.

Birminghamboy

So.... This wasn't what I expected....

Brother had a call this morning from the person handling the complaint. We expected to be waiting weeks however I did make it really clear that he was in a lot of distress. They have upheld his complaint, agreed to remove the default and given him £150! Apparently they hadn't sent the correct default notice out. 

I have agreed to pay the balance off for him. I have already cleared the arrears and will clear the remaining balance when the default is no longer on his credit file. 

It wasn't what I thought would happen but I am very relieved. 

Purplelady65

Well done that sounds a great result. Your tenacity has paid off. Your brother is lucky to have you fighting his corner and supporting him. Hopefully this outcome will relieve some stress for you both and help your brother in his recovery.