Electricity meter goes backwards then doubles usage.

pellmell

Has anyone else experienced this? Over 3 days my electricity meter went backwards by 3KWh then went forwards adding a day that did not exist. I take readings and photographs everyday because of the past problems with my supplier and consequently I know exactly how much KWh I use everyday and night (Econ 7). I could not believe what I saw and have tried to figure it out. It happened over 5th and 6th April so nothing to do with price rise but it was end of financial year. Have I misunderstood something here or is something very wrong. I have not complained yet because there is already a complaint in about my last bill. They billed me for one 24 hour period showing a night usage of 2300KWh when I know I only used 12KWh. I have a non working Smart meter which I know they can remotely access, so this too is confusing. Needless to say a complaint to the company has been ignored for 11 days now and the bill has not changed, despite my having sent photographs of the readings. I wish these companies were more accountable for their pile of pants rubbish.

born_again

Do you have solar?

MeteredOut

It is extremely improbable (verging on impossible) that is issue is due to the tax year end.

In what way is your smart meter "non-working"?

You say you're on E7, which means the meter has two registers to record day/night usage. Are you confident you've been comparing like for like with your readings?

Can you send a photo of the meter (with serial number redacted) and a list of the readings with date/time?

2300kWh over 24 hours is obviously wrong. Can you share the bill (again redacted) showing how they calculated this?

Scot_39

Smart meters have AFAIK no inherent knowledge of tax year.

Of course your supplier could have pushed a price or firmware update at any tiime.

My IHD readings (so possibly the meter - have an interesting "feature") - between midnight and 1am - during DST.

So if there is any chance that you took the readings between midnight and 1 am (DST) on one of the days.  

My IHD actually shifts it's daily history scroll at midnight by a day - and then corrects itself - to match actual dates of use again - after 1am.

So I have learned never to record daily / weekly / monthly figures - which I do to enter into my own spreadsheet type records between 12 and 1am.

But there have been other anomolies.

I have had a week in the history scroll say I used 0 kWh - but the 7 days in the daily scroll at time all normal - and the use for the month added to the 31 daily etc and all was billed as normal.

And the year - which I thought was more like last 12 months total - is now still weird.

(Was across a leap / non leap year - iirc - so did wonder if extra day did something weird).

pellmell

I have triple checked and the photos and hard copy notes concur. I do have some solar but these changes were also at night and that period was no more sunny than any other time. My meter is meant to be Smart but it has never been able to send readings, I do that online. I am unable to claim a solar tariff because apparently I do not have a smart meter. However the company has admitted in an email that they can access my meter remotely to change it and take readings. I am beginning to wonder if this is the problem and the remote access has gone wrong. It is worrying that possibly, a person can access my meter remotely and change the readings, shades of Fujitsu and Post Office?

Table showing the odd readings for April

date             Time     R1     sum    R2       sum

03/04/2025	11.25	4488	12		24871	12
04/04/2025	9.23	4509	21		24884	13
05/04/2025	7.07	4507	-2		24883	-1
06/04/2025	7.25	4533	26		24906	23

The company have had photographs of these readings.
my readings are;
29/03/2025      Rate 1 Day   4401       Rate 2 Night    24809
30/03/2025      Rate 1 Day   4418       Rate 2 Night    24821

pellmell

I should say that the meter was put in as new in 2021. It is a 3 phase meter but I only have single phase.

MeteredOut

pellmell said:

I have triple checked and the photos and hard copy notes concur. I do have some solar but these changes were also at night and that period was no more sunny than any other time. My meter is meant to be Smart but it has never been able to send readings, I do that online. I am unable to claim a solar tariff because apparently I do not have a smart meter. However the company has admitted in an email that they can access my meter remotely to change it and take readings. I am beginning to wonder if this is the problem and the remote access has gone wrong. It is worrying that possibly, a person can access my meter remotely and change the readings, shades of Fujitsu and Post Office?

Table showing the odd readings for April

date             Time     R1     sum    R2       sum

03/04/2025	11.25	4488	12		24871	12
04/04/2025	9.23	4509	21		24884	13
05/04/2025	7.07	4507	-2		24883	-1
06/04/2025	7.25	4533	26		24906	23

The company have had photographs of these readings.
my readings are;
29/03/2025      Rate 1 Day   4401       Rate 2 Night    24809
30/03/2025      Rate 1 Day   4418       Rate 2 Night    24821

Starting with the second issue - bill showing 2310kWh usage. The starting reading there is estimated as 22511, but you're saying is was 24809 on that date. But, since their estimated reading was 22511, that suggests the previous bill was lower than it should have been. Do you have the bill showing earlier usage/dates?

 It could simply be that your previous bills were estimated and that fill is brining you up to date. What you really want is two customer readings between two known dates.


For the "going backwards" issue, you've only shared daily readings, but you said you have evidence of going going backwards overnight?

With a meter going backwards, even if you're sure the solar is not a cause, I'd recommend disconnecting it and seeing if the meter going backwards still happens.

You initially said you have a non-working smart meter, then said you do not have a smart meter. Which is it? Can you post a photo, or a model number? You said it was installed in 2021, so I guess it is a smart meter.

" should say that the meter was put in as new in 2021. It is a 3 phase meter but I only have single phase."

I do wonder if that could cause an issue, but I don't know enough about phases to say if it could do if not installed correctly. Google AI (so might be wrong) tells me (my bolding):

"Yes, a 3-phase electricity meter can be used with a single-phase installation, but it's not ideal and may require some adjustments. A 3-phase meter is designed for 3-phase power, which has three active lines and a neutral, while a single-phase installation typically has only one active line and a neutral. While it's possible to adapt a 3-phase meter for single-phase use, it may not be as accurate and could lead to issues like load imbalances. "

Scot_39

1) Why do you have a 3 phase meter on a single phase system ?

AFAIK they use 3 measurement circuits - so should be accurate - but I'd have to find a spec to check.

Old internal industrial metering didn't always - and depending on wiring some used 1 circuit and reading x3 or some used 2 - accurate for certain winding arrangements even if phases imbalanced iirc.

2) -Ve step on 5/4 reading

On the face of it - that looks like a faulty meter.

A negative reading is wrong.

Irrespective of solar or not - as Solar shouldn't do that - if it does - the meter isn't suitable for solar - and so should not have been fitted - or changed when solar was.

Unless your somehow reading an import register and then a net (import - export) register (some single rate meters have both - not sure about multirate).

2b)

Solar is as you are probably aware not a net flow billing scenario in UK - import and export is measured and when export billed - billed independently at different rates.

You need to report it as faulty - or not suitable - if not already - if you suspect solar the culprit

3)DCC live

Have you checked your history - if it's speaking to DCC now - have you tried getting the readings from the meters memory using an APP like bright / loop etc.

Getting 1/2 hrly and daily totals for those days.

Or asked your supplier to do likewise as a diagnostic check.

As above in my case - daily was fine - weekly went wrong - perhaps - your 1/2 hourly will be fine - but your daily wrong.  And simply caught up and corrected itself - so the 6/4 absolute is still correct.

 

3) Remote Access

Remote access to change parameters - like billing rates / times - is not the same thing as changing the register readings.

There are many out their who have multirate meters - but have moved to single rate metering - and there can be issues specifically because the R2 (off peak) register is not zeroed in the switch - if users or alternative suppliers even - start confusing total input and rate 1 input when readings used (as the R2 register switches in / out of say monthly usage - as thats differences - seen).  Some have had new meters fitted after a period to prevent a repeat - so both registers are reset to zero.

4) How long bills estimated ?

The later bill looks horribly like a catch up bill - on the night rate (2300 kWh change) like you had submitted.

When was the last time you had a bill based on an actual smart or manually submitted reading - I note you say your sending them in.

But we did that and SG ignored them for 2 years - 2 of ours and 2 annual paid meter reader visits - and got a catch up bill for £700 - for iirc around 5 day period (from their estimate - to the day I phoned in actual and triggered a rebill).   The little (E) in the middle of the detailed calc missed by elderly mum and sister - they only read the summary pages and trusted OK - as knew had sent / taken readings they were being used.

Qyburn

It's as good as certain that solar export won't make an electronic meter run backwards.

Scot_39

I sadly have forgetten the details - but wasnt there issues with some installs - possibly on system but not suppliers meters  - with issues with reveresed CT transformers on their measurments.

Robin9

I think this is a case of a catch up bill .

Can you go back in time please  -   was the last bill also estimated?