DCB Legal court hearing in two days – getting worried now!

takeaway_trumpet

Hi,

The hearing is scheduled for 10th April and I’m worried that that DCB Legal might actually win this one!

My defence is  I remember it raining heavily, or my hair and clothes getting wet quickly at least, and I remember repeatedly prodding the Parking Pay Station keypad in an attempt to enter my Registration Number. I only managed to enter the first letter G. The keypad just wouldn’t accept any other letters, but I managed to get the machine to take my money. I believe I tried my best to enter my Registration Number, and believe it was reasonable of me to assume that paying for the ticket would be sufficient, rather than expecting to be taken to court for breach of their contract terms that I appear to have subjected myself to - I will certainly read parking notice boards better in future - but I would argue that for Excel Parking Services to justify severe penalties for non-compliance, they should provide Pay Stations that work in the rain, rather than expecting people to get wet trying to read a large sign, find a phone number, and then enter this into a smartphone screen, which also stop working once a few drops of rain is present on them. As evidence of my perseverance with the Parking Pay Station, my wife who was waiting for me, said ‘You took ages’ when I returned. She would be happy to provide a statement to support this. Would this sort of thing help me?

I also provided links to the historical weather data, and will be taking printouts showing rainfall and 21kph wind with gusts of 32kph. The rainfall data doesn’t look particularly heavy, but the wind meant that the Parking Pay Station screen was being showered with raindrops.

I also listed some comments from the House Of Commons debate on the Parking (Code of Practice) Bill, e.g. Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; years of abuse by rogue parking companies; bloodsuckers; the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank; extortionate fines; rogue operators; sense of injustice; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this.

I also described my own experience, since the ‘offence’ on 2nd Aug 2023, I heard nothing until Jan 2024, receiving letters almost every week, and many phone calls, all attempting to get me to pay the ever-increasing fine. I followed the appeal process, providing screenshots of credit card statements proving payment, my mitigation and the historical weather data, but they weren’t interested. This whole thing has caused my partner and I one year and three months of worry...

But their recent witness statement has me particularly worried with the below points, and I’m desperately looking for how I should respond to these in Court:

1)      “The Defendant was afforded a 28-day period in which they could appeal. An appeal was lodged which was unsuccessful. A copy of the appeal and response issued is exhibited at “EXHIBIT 6”. The Defendant was able to submit a second appeal to the ATA’s appeals service, but no successful second appeal has been made. The potential next step was clearly communicated to the Defendant in notices. It is respectfully submitted that if the Defendant genuinely believed the Charge had been issued incorrectly, they would have engaged with the appeals process further” – After submitting my appeal, I’d started to read about all the other similar cases online, and everything I’d read including these forums indicated the appeals process was a sham, and not to bother. Will this satisfy the Judge?

2)      Similarly “If there was any doubt regarding their liability, the Defendant has had ample time to challenge the Charge or request evidence in support. Despite correspondence being sent to the Defendant by a debt collection agency and a Letter of Claim being issued in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, no challenges have previously been raised.” – will the Judge think I should’ve tried?

3)      “The Defendant has stated that as they ‘tried [their] best’ to enter their VRM they believed it to be reasonable to assume that ‘paying for the ticket would be sufficient’. This statement and conclusion of the Defendant is frivolous at best.” – I’m really hoping the Judge doesn’t agree with this one!

4)      “The Defendant knowingly didn’t enter their full and accurate VRM, and they cannot seek to blame the weather for this. The Defendant ought to have used an alternative method when they realised, they couldn’t enter their VRM into the terminal or contacted the Helpline clearly stated on the signs.” – at the time I was focused on getting the machine to take the money, rather than reading signs, which after decades of parking, felt normal and reasonable. If I hadn’t have managed to get the machine to take the money, I’d have resorted to reading the sign and rang the helpline...

I’d very much appreciate anyone’s thoughts/experience/advice asap please!

Best regards, Steve

Coupon-mad

She would be happy to provide a statement to support this. Would this sort of thing help me?

Too late. And not needed. We assume you put in your WS in March?

I also provided links to the historical weather data, and will be taking printouts showing rainfall and 21kph wind with gusts of 32kph. The rainfall data doesn’t look particularly heavy, but the wind meant that the Parking Pay Station screen was being showered with raindrops.

I would not take that.

Change your whole stance to VERY much blame the machine and say the term was VOID FOR IMPOSSIBILITY and out of your control. You were prevented from entering your VRM. The contract was 'impossible to perform'.

Use the word impossible and say that their machine 'frustrated the contract'.

Also state that the C obtained the payment it sought for the hours parked; there was no loss and this inflated charge is an unrecoverable penalty.

Excel are the ones being frivolous!

I'd put in this video as late evidence (as a URL and take it on a memory stick) and read the article. Watch this video:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdeln2ly1z0o.amp

I hear Donna Nash may be appealing the wrong decision made by a judge in her case. Don't be put off by her case but do be aware you must convince your Judge.

Also put in this order today with your supplementary WS with these words:

No legitimate interest (the ParkingEye v Beavis case is fully distinguished)

There is no legitimate interest in pursuing a Defendant who paid in full, and this Claimant knows this full well. In a judgment dated 10th June 2024, His Honour Judge Pema (sitting at the County Court at Bradford) refused Excel Parking Services Ltd's attempt to appeal the decision in Case no K4QZ4Y21 which Excel had lostin similar circumstances to the extant claim, which involves the same Claimant:

In their rejection latter after you appealed, did Excel offer to settle for £20?

If not, depending on when the event was they may have breached thd IPC Code of Practice which now has that as a mandatory clause for keying errors. Add that too, if they DIDN'T.

Email the above (especially the order by HHJ Pema) with a signed/dated Supplementary WS before 4pm TODAY.

DO NOT JUST ROCK UP TO THE HEARING WITH NEW STUFF. You can't do that.

takeaway_trumpet

Hi Coupon-mad,

Sooo grateful for your input. I don't have an email address to submit things, as I regrettably submitted my defence using Money Claim Online. Is there nothing I can do now?

Re keying errors the date of the event was 2nd Aug 2023.

Coupon-mad

I'm worried: you're 24 hours before the hearing and (please say I'm wrong) ... you have never emailed a WS at all?

Oh dear. Defence was not your only job, as the NEWBIES thread tells every defendant.

It would have taken just five minutes today to google (or phone) to find your local court's hearings email address (instead of replying here when I was at work, as were other posters). Hope you did the emails off your own bat and realised you had to cc in the solicitors as well?

You must have prepared it by now so if you didn't email this WS bundle, do it this morning.

Don't post here to check - you won't get replies in time - just do it.

Gr1pr

Frankly, I am also worried 

Worried that you failed to comply with your court order from your local civil court that you nominated on your N180 DQ document months ago 

You were given the hearing date and the court order would give a deadline of say 2 weeks prior to submit your witness statement bundle to both parties,  your local civil court and also to the lawyers,  dcb legal in this case 

It seems to me too that you have failed to do it a couple of weeks ago,  which you should have done   !

The CNBC and MCOL were no longer involved once they sent it to your local civil court months ago 

Get it emailed to both parties today asap and take printed copies with you tomorrow,  apologise to the judge if required,  due to not understanding the process as a Litigant in Person 

Car1980

Have you received a Witness Statement from Excel?

takeaway_trumpet

@Coupon-mad so sorry for any confusion, yes their WS was in response to mine (pasted in my original post), which is why I’m worried really, as what I assumed to be reasonable behaviour on my behalf, would cause DCB to do their typical dropping the case last-minute. I did email the Supplemental WS yesterday to both Court and Claimant (my initial thoughts were I didn’t have this option due to not submitting my original WS via email). Thanks again for your comprehensive advice, and I’ll be sure to update this thread tomorrow – fingers crossed.

 

@Gr1pr thanks for your advice, much appreciated. I really thought my initial WS, evidencing that I’d actually paid, and the machine keypad not working in the rain, would be enough for DCB to drop, but their WS that I received by email just over a week ago on 28th March, convinced me they fancy their chances.

 

@Car1980 I have a WS from DCB Legal, containing all the Excel exhibits, yes.

 

I’m still not sure if they’ve breached the IPC Code, relating to keying errors. The date of the event was 2nd Aug 2023. My appeal was 11th Jan 2024, appeal decision 17th Jan 2024. If I was offered the chance to settle for £20 back then, I’m not even sure I’d have done it, so convinced I was that my actions were reasonable!

Gr1pr

Your initial WS was not a WS if it went to MCOL at the CNBC in Northampton,  you submitted your DEFENCE statement at that time,  not a WS

Your WS only goes to the local court you selected,  including any Exhibits such as coupon mad mentioned,  plus a copy to their solicitors,  so when you received theirs, yours was also due,  usually 2 weeks ago 

Excel tend to push cases to an actual hearing, they always fancy their chances, so par for the course,  meaning that dcb legal will do what their client tells them to do, they were never going to drop it unless Excel told them to

They are likely to send an advocate to the hearing  ( so neither Excel nor DCB Legal will attend   )

Take note of everything coupon mad told you, taking bullet point notes with you,  understand everything she told you

takeaway_trumpet

@Gr1pr thanks again, I'm most grateful. I've got copies printed, hopefully the Judge will be understanding and accept my apologies for not understanding the whole witness statement requirement, as a litigant in person, maybe mentioning my brain tumour as further mitigation (non-cancerous thankfully but obviously has taken my attention away from this matter), and that everything I read online was that DCB Legal try and scare Defendants into paying, and generally drop cases before the Court fee deadline. I don't remember getting anything from the court. I only know of the hearing date and time from DCB Legal's communications...

I have a printout with the two main points:
1) The machine frustrated the contract, the contract term for entering the correct number plate was void for impossibility, impossible to perform

 2) The Claimant obtained the payment it sought for the hours parked; there was no loss and this inflated charge is an unrecoverable penalty

Gr1pr

Your local civil court that you nominated in your N180 will have posted a court order including the hearing date to your local address,  possibly months ago  ( and also to dcb legal too ) , clearly dcb legal received their copy , so you should have received yours from the post person,  check your postal mail to see when it was delivered, 

Rng your local civil court with the claim reference number, ASAP,    ask about it,  especially if nothing was received at your address,  ask them to email a copy of the court order and directions to your email address,  ASAP  ( dont just take dcb legals word for it, they dont work for you,  they work for Excel Parking  )

As a Litigant in Person,  representing yourself,  its your job as defendant to liaise with your local civil court   ( which court is it  )

Whilst its true that dcb legal discontinue many cases on behalf of their clients, it's more usual in other parking company cases, like ECP , Ukpc, Parking Eye,  I Park,  Group Nexus etc, not Excel Parking 

ChirpyChicken

If you let me know which court it is i can double check its going ahead tommorrow using courtserve from about 2pm/3pm today