Law regarding work Sickness?

Whitebeast

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I work for 1 of the biggest retail stores in the UK, Yesterday I came in to work and there's a note to all employees regarding new sickness rules, We now only allowed to be off 1 day a year sick any more and we going to get a verbal warning than written and final and then sack. Is this even legal for the company?

elsien

They must be having a lot of sickness amongst the employees to be going in with such an extreme measure. Maybe that’s something the employees need to consider, If there’s any of them taking the proverbial.
What is the current trigger for sickness warning? 

Although I think possibly there may well be some misinterpretation going on, as long as you don’t have something that qualifies as a disability under the equality act, with less than two years service they can get rid of you for any reason. Sickness or no sickness.

After that they would have to go through the proper disciplinary process, so not quite as simple as saying just getting the sack. But yes, ultimately after jumping through all the hoops potentially people could be dismissed on capability grounds. but they can’t just sack on the spot because that way unfair dismissal claims lie.

Is this related to last October’s post with regard to your work duties and health conditions?

MattMattMattUK

Whitebeast said:
I work for 1 of the biggest retail stores in the UK, Yesterday I came in to work and there's a note to all employees regarding new sickness rules, We now only allowed to be off 1 day a year sick any more and we going to get a verbal warning than written and final and then sack. Is this even legal for the company?

Is that what they actually said, or is that a somewhat hyperbolic paraphrasing? If it was the former then I would expect it to be national news.

It it actually bases around ability to self-certify sicknesses vs needing a doctor's note?

LightFlare

elsien said:

They must be having a lot of sickness amongst the employees to be going in with such an extreme measure. Maybe that’s something the employees need to consider, If there’s any of them taking the proverbial.
What is the current trigger for sickness warning? 

Although I think possibly there may well be some misinterpretation going on, as long as you don’t have something that qualifies as a disability under the equality act, with less than two years service they can get rid of you for any reason. Sickness or no sickness.

After that they would have to go through the proper disciplinary process, so not quite as simple as saying just getting the sack. But yes, ultimately after jumping through all the hoops potentially people could be dismissed on capability grounds. but they can’t just sack on the spot because that way unfair dismissal claims lie.

Is this related to last October’s post with regard to your work duties and health conditions?

Possibly - but the OP never returned to that thread.

They then stated family owned business but now biggest retail store in the UK so a fair chance it’s not the same employer.

FlorayG

Does it actually mean 'one day self-certified sickness' not one day actually sick? meaning, if you're off for more than one day you need to bother your GP for a note?

Chrysalis

Most places I have worked for have/had similar policies.

I remember being surprised its legal in my first job, but then I later realised it seems widespread practice across the country.
Having a sick note made no difference either, although typically exceptions would be given for major issues like surgery.
So to summarise if you wasnt hospitalised expect to get disciplined.
The one exception was for one employer who by coincidence was heavily unionised.

TELLIT01

Everywhere I worked had a sickness 'action' policy.  We were permitted either 3 period of absence in a rolling year, or 8 days total, whichever was less before the policy kicked in.  We also had a 'back to work interview' after every period of sickness, even a single day.  Excessive absence could eventually lead to sacking, depending on the reasons or lack thereof.  Prior to the introduction of this system at the last place I worked there was a notable pattern of being off 'sick' on Monday for some people.  Their health suddenly improved once the system kicked in.  Some of these peope were also stupid enough to post pictures of them getting bladdered on Saturday and Sunday evenings.

Undervalued

Whitebeast said:

​

I work for 1 of the biggest retail stores in the UK, Yesterday I came in to work and there's a note to all employees regarding new sickness rules, We now only allowed to be off 1 day a year sick any more and we going to get a verbal warning than written and final and then sack. Is this even legal for the company?

Whilst I suspect you are paraphrasing to some extent it is perfectly lawful for an employer to have an extremely tight sickness absence management policy.

As others have said, employees with less than 2 years service have no protection against unfair dismissal (except in cases of unlawful discrimination and a very few other situations).

Those with longer service do have some limited protection in that they might have a claim for unfair dismissal. However, that would only (possibly) get them some compensation. No law prevents them from being dismissed or can, in practice, order their reinstatement.

One (or more) of the UK's largest retailers reportedly has a policy of robustly fighting all unfair dismissal claims, regardless of cost, as they feel that tends to deter other claim and is cheaper overall. 

MattMattMattUK

TELLIT01 said:

Everywhere I worked had a sickness 'action' policy.  We were permitted either 3 period of absence in a rolling year, or 8 days total, whichever was less before the policy kicked in.  We also had a 'back to work interview' after every period of sickness, even a single day.  Excessive absence could eventually lead to sacking, depending on the reasons or lack thereof.  Prior to the introduction of this system at the last place I worked there was a notable pattern of being off 'sick' on Monday for some people.  Their health suddenly improved once the system kicked in.  Some of these peope were also stupid enough to post pictures of them getting bladdered on Saturday and Sunday evenings.

At a medium employer I used to work at I had to monitor holidays and sickness taken by employees, I plotted it all out and analysed it, there were a group of employees who would burn through their holiday in the first third to half of the year with no sick days, then when they ran out of holiday they would suddenly start taking sick days, with more than 90% of those sick days on a Monday and/or Friday. I also analysed previous years from before it was my responsibility and those employees averaged 20-30 sick days a year.

I introduced a proper sickness policy, several of the employees were given occupational health assessments (three had more than 60 sick days in a year, those three were all claiming false sick days). Eleven of people quit within six months when they could no longer get away with their fake sick days, we sacked two for gross misconduct (fake doctor's notes), five were performance managed out. There were four employees had genuine health issues and I was able to support them via occupational health to make adjustments and allow them to function better, two who were in that group were on long term NHS waiting lists and the company paid for them to have surgery privately rather than leaving them stuck in limbo. 

I remember thinking when I first started in the world of employment that these kind of rules were onerous and tedious, over time I have come to realise that they are absolutely necessary as there are always people who will take the proverbial if they are not held to account. 

itsthelittlethings

One day of sickness is not necessary or reasonable. You could have flu and be off for a week easily. It also encourages people to come in and spread their germs around, if it’s a retailer customers may include vulnerable members of the public. By all means have a robust sickness management policy but no more than one day a year is absolutely taking the mickey.

penners324

I suspect the employer has got fed up with employees using their sick day 'allowance" like extra holiday.