Pay-As-You-Go Insurance: Age Shouldn't Be the Final Word

NorbieG

DullGreyGuy said:

NorbieG said:
Age is just a number in my case! While I may be 78, I’m often told I look around 50. My health, eyesight, reactions, ability, and physical appearance don’t align with typical stereotypes of someone my age, which demonstrates how misleading age-based discrimination can be. Insurance companies are dismissing me based solely on my age, ignoring the reality of my impeccable driving record and active lifestyle.   

Age isnt just a number, if you do statistical analysis on drivers where the only variance is their age very standard results start appearing because the typical 19 year old hasnt fully matured yet and naturally won't have years of driving experience to call on just like the average 80 year old's reactions have slowed. 

Yes there are teenagers that are much more mature than their peers and there are older folk who haven't deteriorated at much but to judge that you'd need to individually observe the person over an extended period of time. Obviously if everyone had to be monitored for a month before applying for insurance it would likely bring insurance up to a five figure sum and be particularly problematic for those that need insurance at short notice. 

As the average person complains about paying £500/year for car insurance they arent going to want to add another two digits to it and so we accept that risks are judged on what the average person with the same characteristics is like and yes there will be some winners and losers. 

I once had a customer call, he was 81 from memory I think, saying very much the same about themselves, that they are often mistaken for a mid 50s, still goes clubbing and has to fend off middle age women, but when trying to park in a carpark he'd accidentally put the car in D rather than R hit a few cars, panicked, missed the brake and hit the accelerator damaging a total of 8 cars. 

3 months later had a middle age woman calling on behalf of her father, saying basically the same story minus the fact he is amazing for his age. Name was ringing a bell and so double checked and sure enough same bloke but it was 10 cars this time. I commented that I would be referring the policy to underwriting and likely wouldn't be offering renewal terms and she said it didnt matter as they were taking the keys off of him. 

Maybe he deteriorated quickly inside the policy year, maybe he hadn't realised his own decline, but circa £100k of damage being done is likely to have nudged premiums in that age group. 

That's rubbish!  Anyone younger could have caused that amount of damage whether in a car park or on the road.  My neighbour in her mid-30s - the other day she reversed her automatic car into their fence and broke it down.

NorbieG

400ixl said:

NorbieG said:

Hoenir said:

NorbieG said:

My clean driving record spanning 55 years should speak volumes about my responsibility as a driver, yet these insurance companies refuse to consider it. 

Totally irrelevant. The insurance company has to assess the risk as of today. Motoring has changed in that 55 year time frame. Likewise to insure individuals on case by case basis would send premiums through the roof.  Pooled risk benefits everyone. Even if the cost is seemingly very high. 

What about my capability to drive; aren't they taking that away from me?

Your capability to drive diminishes at a point in time which statistically the insurers take into consideration. It is the group statistic they are taking into account as they can't do it at an individual level for insurance.

There is no age discrimination in terms of a protected discrimination.

Diminished? Not in my case!  Well, they should re-test all drivers at least every 3 to 4 years, then!

DullGreyGuy

NorbieG said:

born_again said:

Car SORN will mean that you lost any NCD, as normal max is 2 years without insurance, although you may find some that will stretch to 3.


All you can do is go on compare sites & see what is offered.

Can't find any, although I'm informed there are some.  When I contact those that are supposed to go up to 3 years, they give me excuses... and informed me they only go up to 2 years.

Admiral group are the only ones currently advertising that they accept up to 3 years that I know of. Who have you been asking? 

NorbieG said:

DullGreyGuy said:

NorbieG said:
Age is just a number in my case! While I may be 78, I’m often told I look around 50. My health, eyesight, reactions, ability, and physical appearance don’t align with typical stereotypes of someone my age, which demonstrates how misleading age-based discrimination can be. Insurance companies are dismissing me based solely on my age, ignoring the reality of my impeccable driving record and active lifestyle.   

Age isnt just a number, if you do statistical analysis on drivers where the only variance is their age very standard results start appearing because the typical 19 year old hasnt fully matured yet and naturally won't have years of driving experience to call on just like the average 80 year old's reactions have slowed. 

Yes there are teenagers that are much more mature than their peers and there are older folk who haven't deteriorated at much but to judge that you'd need to individually observe the person over an extended period of time. Obviously if everyone had to be monitored for a month before applying for insurance it would likely bring insurance up to a five figure sum and be particularly problematic for those that need insurance at short notice. 

As the average person complains about paying £500/year for car insurance they arent going to want to add another two digits to it and so we accept that risks are judged on what the average person with the same characteristics is like and yes there will be some winners and losers. 

I once had a customer call, he was 81 from memory I think, saying very much the same about themselves, that they are often mistaken for a mid 50s, still goes clubbing and has to fend off middle age women, but when trying to park in a carpark he'd accidentally put the car in D rather than R hit a few cars, panicked, missed the brake and hit the accelerator damaging a total of 8 cars. 

3 months later had a middle age woman calling on behalf of her father, saying basically the same story minus the fact he is amazing for his age. Name was ringing a bell and so double checked and sure enough same bloke but it was 10 cars this time. I commented that I would be referring the policy to underwriting and likely wouldn't be offering renewal terms and she said it didnt matter as they were taking the keys off of him. 

Maybe he deteriorated quickly inside the policy year, maybe he hadn't realised his own decline, but circa £100k of damage being done is likely to have nudged premiums in that age group. 

That's rubbish!  Anyone younger could have caused that amount of damage whether in a car park or on the road.  My neighbour in her mid-30s - the other day she reversed her automatic car into their fence and broke it down.

Whats rubbish? 

Of cause anyone could have but anyone didnt, a single person did, who claimed that they had the reflexes of a cat and looked 55. Their family didnt agree when they repeated the same trick a couple of months later. 

As to the statistical analysis? Done it myself for at least 3 of the uk largest insurers, all had very similar claims experience based on age. Claim value typically goes down with age but frequency goes up which more than compensates for the difference... more low speed accidents in carparks etc but not so many motorway/dual carriageway ones. 

NorbieG

DullGreyGuy said:

NorbieG said:

born_again said:

Car SORN will mean that you lost any NCD, as normal max is 2 years without insurance, although you may find some that will stretch to 3.


All you can do is go on compare sites & see what is offered.

Can't find any, although I'm informed there are some.  When I contact those that are supposed to go up to 3 years, they give me excuses... and informed me they only go up to 2 years.

Admiral group are the only ones currently advertising that they accept up to 3 years that I know of. Who have you been asking? 

AXA, Adrian Flux, Aviva, LV, Tesco, Santander, MoreThan, Admiral, and more on comparison sites.  On comparison site, I'll complete the form then pay for the insurance, then when I send the proof of my NCD, they inform me that it's over 2 years, therefore I lost my (full) NCD and I'll have to start from scratch again.

DullGreyGuy

Well if you look at confused.com for example they say the NCD will need to have been earned in the last two years so as yours is over 2 years old it should be entered as 0.

Admiral however still state on their site https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/car-insurance/how-the-no-claims-bonus-works that they accept up to 3 years. 

If you are otherwise a great risk though you may well be at the floor of their premiums and so NCD makes little to no difference and so Admiral may be more expensive accepting your NCD than another insurer quoting on 0 years NCD. There will always be a question on if its worth paying more this year for Admiral which would then regularise the NCD and potentially lead to cheaper quoted in the following years but no guarantees

XRS200

What exactly do you mean by pay-as-you-go insurance?

swingaloo

At 78 you have to expect that companies are going to be more wary especially if you havent driven for 3 years. That is a negative not a positive. 

I remember my father in law complaining about insurance and actually going into the insurance office with his 'medals' from work that he was given each year for never having an accident, He said it 'proved' he was a good driver!

In reality he was a menace on the road, pottering along always 2 miles under the speed limit, stopping in the middle of the road to wave some pedestrian across because 'I'm courteous' and thinking his age gave him the God given right to take as long as he wanted doing a 7,9,11 point turn. 

The insurance companies just see your age, they dont know if you run a half marathon every weekend or if you are a couch potato, they dont know if you are a steady Eddie or a wanna-be boy racer. they cant be expected to research every drivers ability or lifestyle.
Fair or not, your age is relevant to the quotes.

NorbieG

XRS200 said:

What exactly do you mean by pay-as-you-go insurance?

You pay for what you use.  Several insurance companies do that, for drivers (like myself) who don't drive a lot.  But only up to a certain age - normally below 75/70.

XRS200

NorbieG said:

XRS200 said:

What exactly do you mean by pay-as-you-go insurance?

You pay for what you use.  

Why not buy an annual policy, with the correct estimated mileage.

NorbieG

XRS200 said:

NorbieG said:

XRS200 said:

What exactly do you mean by pay-as-you-go insurance?

You pay for what you use.  

Why not buy an annual policy, with the correct estimated mileage.

Because I drive only 1,500 to 2,000 miles a year.