Used car - Bought as is receipt

mah14681

I've always bought very cheap cars to keep on the road for a few years, nothing more than £900 for the last 20 years, not able to afford anything more. I'm a capable mechanic but struggle to communicate with people in person (a whole other story). My previous car was a serious risk, but was all I could find that I could afford in 2021. They said they'd sent an electronic receipt which I never got. I rebuilt the head and replaced numerous parts and did a little welding after discovering the head gasket had blown and the rust fell out of the sill (they'd given it a dodgy MOT a month before). It did me well for four years but the diesel pump started to leak badly a month after it's last MOT so, I part exchanged for a Fiesta with 12 months MOT from a trader round the corner, five days ago.

He provided me with an "as is" receipt which I know doesn't absolve him from all responsibilities but, is used as a way to deter buyers returning and as something with which to argue. The car drove really well but, two days ago I noticed symptoms of head gasket failure coming home from work so checked the coolant, which I topped up. Today, sitting in traffic due to tailbacks from a motorway accident the coolant started to leak and steam came from water pump side. I pulled over and it was dripping coolant on that side. When I let pressure out of the tank, the level came up indicating a blown gasket.

With the "as is" receipt, do you think I am justified in asking him for some help, at least towards the cost of the parts I've just ordered and the additional costs I expect to pay, because I inevitably find a few other little bits that need replaced: in total £200-£250?

What should I expect given this is something that, in my opinion as a fellow experienced, home mechanic he must have known about or at least suspected at point of sale? Even if he hadn't given it a thought, that it's failed so soon after buying it does that support my case?

Thanks for reading, I'm grateful for any advice.

P.S. I'm sure the curse will lift when I can finally afford a decent car

eskbanker

I'm not familiar with the concept of 'as is' receipts but traders can't override statutory rights, and if you only bought the car five days ago and it's faulty, you can reject it for a refund - the trader may be able to convince you to keep it if he repairs it (at his cost), but it's your prerogative to reject at this stage.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/2/crossheading/what-remedies-are-there-if-statutory-rights-under-a-goods-contract-are-not-met

Don't regard him as a "fellow experienced, home mechanic" - he's a trader (with all the liabilities that entails) and you're a consumer!

ThumbRemote

There is no such thing as 'as is' or 'as seen' sales under UK law. The relevant bit is section 9 of the Consumer Rights Act. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9

This states that goods must be of satisfactory quality. The definition of satisfactory depends on the description given and the price. The only exclusion is whether a fault was specifically drawn to the buyers attention beforehand, or whether it ought to have been obvious to the buyer from their own examination. 

So the key question is whether the condition of the car is commensurate with the price. Did you pay so little that the car was bound to be a wreck? Or should the MOT have indicated it was mechanically sound? I know very little about cars so really can't comment on those aspects.  

mah14681

eskbanker said:

....

Don't regard him as a "fellow experienced, home mechanic" - he's a trader (with all the liabilities that entails) and you're a consumer!

Thank you

Sorry, I should elaborate: I bought a car from him ten years ago and that car was great. We've had friendly chats and I view him as a professional acquaintance who's also given a lot back to the community he's invested in. Used car sales is a small part of his professional life and I consider myself more experienced with auto repairs - he has friends/colleagues to help with that. I get your point though, he does have a trader's responsibility which, I inferred in the original post.

Please be patient, I view things differently and it can be hard for me to understand what relevant info to provide at the right times. I aim to retain a professional relationship because we've discussed a benefit I can provide with programming PSA and Ford cars. Though I find it difficult to understand when I'm being taken advantage of which, is why I asked what people think is a reasonable expectation of the trader - the background information might have been helpful, but I also have a tendancy to waffle-on, so tried to keep it brief.

I'll provide more info in my response to @ThumbRemote which may be relevant.

mah14681

ThumbRemote said:

There is no such thing as 'as is' or 'as seen' sales under UK law. The relevant bit is section 9 of the Consumer Rights Act. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/9
...
So the key question is whether the condition of the car is commensurate with the price. Did you pay so little that the car was bound to be a wreck? Or should the MOT have indicated it was mechanically sound? I know very little about cars so really can't comment on those aspects.  

Thank you

A head-gasket problem if mild, probably wouldn't prompt any faults on an MOT. An average consumer might expect a full MOT to certify a road-worth vehicle which should last at least twelve months, though the MOT tests whether the car is suitable to drive on the road and is safe to do so, not the reliability of the engine. If stops going, it's safe because it's not moving.

The car is a 2006 Fiesta Ghia 1.6 16v petrol, 120K on the clock, a full service history, with one previous owner from new. It has bells and whistles that work. The interior is immaculate and apart from a slightly broken wing mirror, needing new wiper blades (arrived today) and some rust which I'd expect with the age, there was nothing wrong with it until I'd driven it 9 miles a day for three days. I paid £800, with the trade-in being scrap value of £160 and negotiated £35 off, given the used car market in the price range.

eskbanker

mah14681 said:

eskbanker said:

....

Don't regard him as a "fellow experienced, home mechanic" - he's a trader (with all the liabilities that entails) and you're a consumer!

Thank you

Sorry, I should elaborate: I bought a car from him ten years ago and that car was great. We've had friendly chats and I view him as a professional acquaintance who's also given a lot back to the community he's invested in. Used car sales is a small part of his professional life and I consider myself more experienced with auto repairs - he has friends/colleagues to help with that. I get your point though, he does have a trader's responsibility which, I inferred in the original post.

Please be patient, I view things differently and it can be hard for me to understand what relevant info to provide at the right times. I aim to retain a professional relationship because we've discussed a benefit I can provide with programming PSA and Ford cars. Though I find it difficult to understand when I'm being taken advantage of which, is why I asked what people think is a reasonable expectation of the trader - the background information might have been helpful, but I also have a tendancy to waffle-on, so tried to keep it brief.

I'll provide more info in my response to @ThumbRemote which may be relevant.

Fair enough, but this board is all about consumer rights, so I was answering on that basis, i.e. from what you've posted, you have such rights, either to reject the faulty car or to seek its repair.

However, if for wider reasons you wish to take a more conciliatory approach, that's entirely your prerogative, but that's a matter for your judgement rather than what your rights are.  If you have some sort of relationship with the guy then that should facilitate an honest chat about what's happened, which ought to present the opportunity to reach agreement about how best to resolve the issue, or at least clarify if an amicable resolution isn't going to be viable.

mah14681

eskbanker said:
Fair enough, but this board is all about consumer rights, so I was answering on that basis, i.e. from what you've posted, you have such rights, either to reject the faulty car or to seek its repair.

However, if for wider reasons you wish to take a more conciliatory approach, that's entirely your prerogative, but that's a matter for your judgement rather than what your rights are.  If you have some sort of relationship with the guy then that should facilitate an honest chat about what's happened, which ought to present the opportunity to reach agreement about how best to resolve the issue, or at least clarify if an amicable resolution isn't going to be viable.

Thanks @eskbanker. I took the car round this lunchtime, he had a quick look at it and helped towards the cost of new parts. He did sell as trade at this level so didn't have much more to give. Although there was disagreement of diagnosis, we parted as good acquaintances and potential colleagues.

This slightly positive outcome came from the information given here.

I wouldn't recommend anyone else try replacing a head gasket DIY (or DYI = do yourself an injury) unless you really know what you're doing. Without the right tools, environment and experience things can get very expensive. I have at least two of those, so after a test to confirm diagnosis tomorrow, I'll be happily tinkering for a couple of weekends. At the end of which, I should have a reliable car for the next few years.