New PIP rules - what to do?

Spoonie_Turtle

TELLIT01 said:

I would add that I do see the need for closer scrutiny of claims as there are undoubtedly many fraudulent claims made.  …  The ex-partner of somebody I know has claimed to have ME, fibromyalgia and several other conditions, all of which are very difficult to disprove.  She clearly has a very unusual strain of these conditions as they seem to ease at weekends when she regularly goes out 'clubbing' or whatever the correct term is these days.  I'm afraid it's people like her who cause others to question the system.

Not to derail the thread and obviously none of us can know whether this person is as badly affected by her conditions as she claims to be, but a reminder that you don't see the effect that going out on a weekend has on her, both immediately and for the rest of the week. 

It could be that she's actually fine and fairly functional. 

Or it could be that she's bedbound recovering for a couple of days, then struggles for a couple more days, and for whatever reason feels that splurging her energy on a social life at the weekend is the way she wants to live her life. 

You also don't see how she manages to go out clubbing in the first place, whether she lays down beforehand to have enough energy to get out, whether she's sitting down most of the time, whether she has to lay down for a bit whilst out, whether she takes taxis everywhere because she can't walk far enough to be useful, etc.

Neither you nor I know, because we're not there to see any visible effects nor are we in her body to feel the internal effects.

TELLIT01

@Spoonie_Turtle to clarify my previous post.  The main reason her ex-partner left was because he knew what she was doing and wasn't going to risk being caught up in it.  The big problem is, knowing something is one thing but proving it another thing altogether.

Spoonie_Turtle

Ah, that wasn't clear from your post but in that case fair enough.

housebuyer143

The fact that many of these people who might get 3 on every descriptor will still that quality for PIP is quite disgusting I feel. If you get that many points you are really disabled or ill and you probably have someone caring for you and they probably claim carers. 
If you lose pip you lose carers and they are then required to find work. These people still need care so I see a huge increase in social care need as unpaid carers are forced into work. 
I'm not sure if they completely overlooked this or just don't care, but unpaid carers save the government a lot of money and probably stop the entire social care system collapsing so I hope they look at this knock on effect. 

Muttleythefrog

housebuyer143 said:

The fact that many of these people who might get 3 on every descriptor will still that quality for PIP is quite disgusting I feel. If you get that many points you are really disabled or ill and you probably have someone caring for you and they probably claim carers. 
If you lose pip you lose carers and they are then required to find work. These people still need care so I see a huge increase in social care need as unpaid carers are forced into work. 
I'm not sure if they completely overlooked this or just don't care, but unpaid carers save the government a lot of money and probably stop the entire social care system collapsing so I hope they look at this knock on effect. 

Just to clarify... I think there is only one 3 point scoring descriptor... so really the government is looking to target those scoring 2 points across several activities which may focus on those with the more common mental health problems and some physically restrictive illnesses... ironically those who may require large amounts of continual care but not requiring much expertise. But I share your concerns and it is why I think ultimately the savings might vaporise over time.

Sam2022

So I have done nothing all weekend but go over and over the future changes and how they will decimate my life.  I would love to think I could just get a job and all will be fine in the world but it doesnt work like that for people with disabilities!!  
I appreciate all the views and comments and sound advice I have been given on here.  The bottom line though is what is best to do?

I think I'm going to sit and wait for now as my 10 year review isn't due until June 2026.  I looked at that award again and I firmly believe there are points to be gained from that assessment.  Of course that doesn't mean they will agree.  If only it was that easy!!

I get the do a COC now and try and get it sorted but what if it goes belly up?  Say they reduced the award or left it unchanged, I'm going to be worse off by up to £253 a week (worse case scenario).  Then I'm faced waiting probably 2+ years to get a tribunal.  All the time without the extra money I need and still no guarantee of winning the appeal.  Yes I could get the 4 points needed if it went the other way and potentially a new 10 year award but its a big big risk.

If I wait, its likely my award will be extended and I continue to receive all the cash I do now for possibly 18 months or 2 years beyond June 2026.  That is a massive amount of money I stand to gain.  I would apply the COC at the time of the light touch review, then look at MR and Appeal if necessary.

I cant believe that these changes are going to fly through unopposed and it could easily be 2027 or 2028 before watered down proposals come into force.  Either way there is an element of risk attached and merits to both things to do.

I've also decided that I need to make a big change around my GP practice.  I tend to just get on with it when things hurt more and become harder to do.  I take so many meds each day I don't really want more.  However I've decided that from now on I need to speak out and get absolutely everything on record.  Including the incontinence that occurs as a result of Ulcerative Colitis.  The permanent damage that steroids have caused to my eyesight.  The brain fog, forgetting what I'm saying.  Memory problems the list goes on.  The fact it's taken me from early this morning to type this!!  There are many many days when I am convinced I have some form of early onset dementia, so instead of blaming side effects I think I need to be using my GP to explore these issues and at least have recorded evidence.

Muttleythefrog

Sam2022 said:

 I would apply the COC at the time of the light touch review, then look at MR and Appeal if necessary.

At the end of the day it is your decision and you've clearly done plenty thinking about it. Obviously my advice was to go the other direction... and a reminder that my advice also accommodates what you've effectively signed up for in terms of responsibilities by accepting the benefit. Your commitment is not to report changes that require more or less health when you feel like it or it suits you... but when they happen. So just be aware of that... you are somewhat protected in that you'd be claiming to have deteriorated health and more disablement and thus would be the one to lose out rather than gain public funds not entitled to.

Report a change to your needs or circumstances

You must contact the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) enquiry line straight away if:

• you need more or less help with daily living and mobility tasks

born_again

Muttleythefrog said:

Report a change to your needs or circumstances

You must contact the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) enquiry line straight away if:

• you need more or less help with daily living and mobility tasks

Which makes sense, but is then shot down in flames by the current 12 months it takes DWP to act on it..

Which I think is why advice given is. If on enhanced, it is not worth it. 

HillStreetBlues

I cant believe that these changes are going to fly through unopposed and it could easily be 2027 or 2028 before watered down proposals come into force.  Either way there is an element of risk attached and merits to both things to do.

My personal view is they will push it though without a major delay.
My reasoning is there is no consultancy with the PIP change, that means that can start very soon. They are doing via primary legislation clearly they feel they have the numbers to push it though (they do). Also they have lost the trust of many disabled people, they won't get it back even if the 4 point proposal doesn't go though. As well as that if they do change it, they will be labeled indecisive and then could miss their fiscal targets so incompetent. I now see no upside for the Government to change it for their POV. 

Maybe I will be proved wrong,my opinion hasn't changed from last year.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80738696

HillStreetBlues  said:

The welfare bill will be cut in the next Parliaments, it's just a matter of how much. Sadly my view is it will be worst for claimants than the Cameron/Osborne years.
Normally a Labour Shadow DWP Secretary would have voiced their dismay of what the Tory's are planning, but all we have has is silence I have never known a Shadow DWP Secretary to be so quiet.
If you wanted a Labour MP to push though hard benefits cuts, you would chose Liz Kendall, as when she stood for leader she was the only one supporting the benefit cap. When she was appointed it was a dark day for claimants as it told the direct of travel and how far it could go.
There will be Labour MPs who will rebell but as it's looking like a landslide those voices won't matter, as the Government will be able to push though what it wants.
After all it was a Labour government that introduced the current work capability assessment

Although it's political but it is a political decision, disabled people need to decide when and if to ask for a reassessment and it might be too late nearer the date.
I am on PIP myself and haven't the 4 points due to it's run out in 2030, I think I should have the 4 pointer and also now Enhanced rather than standard. I made the decision because on the above, without it I wouldn't have made the decision for a reassessment, that's why I believe it's important info for disabled claimants even it it does cross forum rules.

Muttleythefrog

born_again said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Report a change to your needs or circumstances

You must contact the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) enquiry line straight away if:

• you need more or less help with daily living and mobility tasks

Which makes sense, but is then shot down in flames by the current 12 months it takes DWP to act on it..

Which I think is why advice given is. If on enhanced, it is not worth it. 

In this case I understand they get standard award for both elements so it is definitely a consideration.