Declined Section 75

Smoose89

eskbanker said:

If you've found the Ts & Cs on the Wayback Machine, what do they say about cancellation policy?  You really need to establish a solid case that you were entitled to a refund if you cancelled, if you wish to recover the money either from the company or your card provider, especially if involving a court, and it doesn't sound like you've done that?

It doest work the t and c's link. it didnt then and now they have removed it from the site.
Well the card provider is out the question cause they have declined it due to cancelling on 16th day. there just going off the standard 14 day cooling off period in general. 
Surely the company if they dont have me signing there terms and proof of me receiving the t&cs which i havent they cant throw that in my face at court. 
Im hoping cause i asked them for an update on the 14th day which they didnt respond and then a request to cancel on the 16th day. Wouldnt that show me attempting to resolve it though and i only asked for my refund 2 days after which was a weekend so nothing would of happened business wise. 

Aylesbury_Duck

There is no standard 14 day cooling off period for an in-store purchase.  I think you're placing too much emphasis on it because as I see it, you have no statutory right to cancel for a full refund.  That's not to say I don't think you're entitled to some or all of your deposit back, but it's not on the basis of a right you seem to think you have.

eskbanker

Smoose89 said:

eskbanker said:

If you've found the Ts & Cs on the Wayback Machine, what do they say about cancellation policy?  You really need to establish a solid case that you were entitled to a refund if you cancelled, if you wish to recover the money either from the company or your card provider, especially if involving a court, and it doesn't sound like you've done that?

It doest work the t and c's link. it didnt then and now they have removed it from the site.
Your previous post suggested that you'd found them, but if you haven't, please share the name of the company and perhaps someone else may succeed, or have a copy already.

Well the card provider is out the question cause they have declined it due to cancelling on 16th day. there just going off the standard 14 day cooling off period in general.
There is no standard 14 day cooling-off period in general, for in-store purchases, so your rights here will be defined by the Ts & Cs.

Surely the company if they dont have me signing there terms and proof of me receiving the t&cs which i havent they cant throw that in my face at court.
In itself it's not a strong argument, but may weaken their case a bit.

Im hoping cause i asked them for an update on the 14th day which they didnt respond and then a request to cancel on the 16th day. Wouldnt that show me attempting to resolve it though and i only asked for my refund 2 days after which was a weekend so nothing would of happened business wise. 
If you didn't have any right to a refund after 14 days then you wouldn't have had one after 16 either, so I don't think that argument really achieves anything?

Comments inline above....

Smoose89

Aylesbury_Duck said:

There is no standard 14 day cooling off period for an in-store purchase.  I think you're placing too much emphasis on it because as I see it, you have no statutory right to cancel for a full refund.  That's not to say I don't think you're entitled to some or all of your deposit back, but it's not on the basis of a right you seem to think you have.

eskbanker said:

Smoose89 said:

eskbanker said:

If you've found the Ts & Cs on the Wayback Machine, what do they say about cancellation policy?  You really need to establish a solid case that you were entitled to a refund if you cancelled, if you wish to recover the money either from the company or your card provider, especially if involving a court, and it doesn't sound like you've done that?

It doest work the t and c's link. it didnt then and now they have removed it from the site.
Your previous post suggested that you'd found them, but if you haven't, please share the name of the company and perhaps someone else may succeed, or have a copy already.

Well the card provider is out the question cause they have declined it due to cancelling on 16th day. there just going off the standard 14 day cooling off period in general.
There is no standard 14 day cooling-off period in general, for in-store purchases, so your rights here will be defined by the Ts & Cs.

Surely the company if they dont have me signing there terms and proof of me receiving the t&cs which i havent they cant throw that in my face at court.
In itself it's not a strong argument, but may weaken their case a bit.

Im hoping cause i asked them for an update on the 14th day which they didnt respond and then a request to cancel on the 16th day. Wouldnt that show me attempting to resolve it though and i only asked for my refund 2 days after which was a weekend so nothing would of happened business wise. 
If you didn't have any right to a refund after 14 days then you wouldn't have had one after 16 either, so I don't think that argument really achieves anything?

Comments inline above....

The company is rite choice windows.
Based in Cleckheaton
the time I visited when the t and cs didnt work
I have attached a screenshot of the error that came up.


I haven't quoted the 14 day period myself its what the bank has said. So am I not entitled to my money back even though say they havent lost out as a company.

I just want to know if im flogging a dead horse im basically 2k down, obviously my only choice now is small claims court, i havent received anything for my money and personally i dont think they have lost anything i have asked them for the invoice if they have but they didnt provide me with it or the bank.

born_again

Smoose89 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Smoose89 said:

I payed the deposit in the showroom.

I did report it to the police but they didnt log it. 

I left a bad review because i wasnt getting anywhere.

I have raised a charge back and and s75 and was declined due to cancelling on 16th day, which they gave me an option to but didnt say they would refund.

Taking those points in turn:

1.  Do you have an automatic right to cancel, given this was an in-person purchase?  You don't have the 14 day cooling-off period you'd have had with a remote purchase, so it's down to their terms and conditions.  

2.  Why didn't you insist they did?

3. Fair enough, but it appears to have backfired.

4. see born_again's comments.

So that appears to leave you with court action to try and reclaim some or all of your deposit.

1 The company wont speak to me now, i raised a complaint end of Jan and heard nothing back. 

2 they didnt see it as a threat as he said he knows where I live, so I will come down with a gang of us ( i see that as a threat but they didnt)

3 Yes obviously could of gone either way. 
as per born again
I havent signed anything so surely its 50/50 .
Surely evidence of it not working though and since then they have removed the terms and conditions link from the website. 
You can view it on waybackmachine the link of it.
This is why im trying to get written confirmation from the bank to confirm that even the advisor couldnt view it which would surely go in my favour?

CA has advised me to raise a complaint with the outcome of the s75 so i can take it further with them.

I take it,  I am best waiting with the court proceedings till I speak with CA again 

For S75 you have to prove your case. Saying you never signed anything means nothing. A contract can be verbal, or as your case when you paid the deposit.

Chargeback relies on evidence. If you can not provide any then it is destined to failure. S75 is exactly the same, only you have to convince CC to dip their hand into their pocket.

Aylesbury_Duck

They can only retain an amount of your deposit relating to genuine costs they've incurred.  They can't have done a great deal considering they hadn't actually measured anything at your house, but they may have incurred some administrative costs or some up-front costs with their suppliers.  

Send them a letter before action asking them to refund the full £2k deposit within 14 days or you'll take them to court.  Then follow through it they don't respond.  The onus is on them to show why they're entitled to keep the full deposit.

Smoose89

the bottom bit is a lie he didnt say I wouldn't get my money back.
He also hasnt shown evidence either of this being paid






(Image removed by Forum Team)

Aylesbury_Duck

Ok, so you were outside their 14 day cooling-off period.  So that rules out an entitlement to a full refund.  And it seems that they've incurred more than your deposit value in costs.

I presume this letter was to your credit card company?  I think it unlikely that an organisation with over 25 years' trading history is going to lie in writing to a regulated finance provider.

Is there more to this than you've told us?  The alleged threats, the police taking no action on them, you posting a poor review, them allegedly not refunding the deposit because you left a poor review when they don't have to refund you anyway, now this letter...it all paints a muddled picture I'm afraid, and I'm beginning to think this is more a case of you being late to decide to withdraw and then going all-in from every angle to try and make them refund you.  I'm sorry if I've misjudged the situation, but that's the picture that's built up in my mind as you've added to your posts.

Smoose89

Aylesbury_Duck said:

They can only retain an amount of your deposit relating to genuine costs they've incurred.  They can't have done a great deal considering they hadn't actually measured anything at your house, but they may have incurred some administrative costs or some up-front costs with their suppliers.  

Send them a letter before action asking them to refund the full £2k deposit within 14 days or you'll take them to court.  Then follow through it they don't respond.  The onus is on them to show why they're entitled to keep the full deposit.

They did the initial measurement but in the invoice it says we will come again to final measure. 
I asked them to provide proof they paid anything before the day i requested to cancel which they havent supplied. On the same message i raised a complaint. It comes up to the 8 week mark on the 30th of march so il give them that.
It's just more ammo for the court if they havent given me a complaint letter or resolution

Yes the 2nd bit is what im hoping.

.born_again said:

Smoose89 said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Smoose89 said:

I payed the deposit in the showroom.

I did report it to the police but they didnt log it. 

I left a bad review because i wasnt getting anywhere.

I have raised a charge back and and s75 and was declined due to cancelling on 16th day, which they gave me an option to but didnt say they would refund.

Taking those points in turn:

1.  Do you have an automatic right to cancel, given this was an in-person purchase?  You don't have the 14 day cooling-off period you'd have had with a remote purchase, so it's down to their terms and conditions.  

2.  Why didn't you insist they did?

3. Fair enough, but it appears to have backfired.

4. see born_again's comments.

So that appears to leave you with court action to try and reclaim some or all of your deposit.

1 The company wont speak to me now, i raised a complaint end of Jan and heard nothing back. 

2 they didnt see it as a threat as he said he knows where I live, so I will come down with a gang of us ( i see that as a threat but they didnt)

3 Yes obviously could of gone either way. 
as per born again
I havent signed anything so surely its 50/50 .
Surely evidence of it not working though and since then they have removed the terms and conditions link from the website. 
You can view it on waybackmachine the link of it.
This is why im trying to get written confirmation from the bank to confirm that even the advisor couldnt view it which would surely go in my favour?

CA has advised me to raise a complaint with the outcome of the s75 so i can take it further with them.

I take it,  I am best waiting with the court proceedings till I speak with CA again 

For S75 you have to prove your case. Saying you never signed anything means nothing. A contract can be verbal, or as your case when you paid the deposit.

Chargeback relies on evidence. If you can not provide any then it is destined to failure. S75 is exactly the same, only you have to convince CC to dip their hand into their pocket.

Yes thats what happened, citizens advice just said before we can intervene you need to make a complaint against there outcome, which will be the same outcome im baffled why they want this im just going ahead. 

Im happy to pay any loss they have incurred, but they havent shown me evidence to say they have which makes me believe he is being stubborn. 

eskbanker

Smoose89 said:

I haven't quoted the 14 day period myself its what the bank has said. So am I not entitled to my money back even though say they havent lost out as a company.

Do you mean that they admit they haven't lost out or that you allege that, based on them not proving loss (yet)?