rogue trader scammed my dad 25k Halifax did nothing to prevent it

catfriend1985

on 27th February a rogue trader approached my Dad door to door.

he said he would clean his gutter for £60. My Dad agreed.

on the 28th the  rogue trader then went up a ladder. took tiles off the roof showed pictures to my dad and said we are going to have to do work on the roof as he is in danger of leaks. they got him to sign on the spot for work on half the roof totalling £12,500. this was to just replace damaged tiles and add new beams and  felt membrane. they ticked the box saying "i/we are aware of the 14 day cooling off period and waiver my/our rights. my dad did not tick this.

my next door neighbour and an elderly 90 year across the road had the same work done

on 4th march they told him the whole roof need doing and will cost a further £11,000.

they sold charged him a further £1500 for plastic (decking i think its called?)

they had told dad on the 16th march that the work was complete so he made the final payment which now totalled £25,000

I was not aware of huge payments at this time or how they approached my Dad

Monday the 17th my 90 year old neighbour approached me and said there's something funny about these people. a £40 gutter job has turned into thousand's and they keep upping the price.

i spoke to my colleagues about what the neighbour had said and they explained this is a common scam known as a "gutter scam"  they offer to clean your gutter for cheap with the intention of selling you another service. 

this same day the scaffolder had refused to take the scaffolding down as they had left the roof and scaffolding in a mess. 

my dads next door neighbour who is a semi detached house with my dad had someone round that day assess the work and said that they have done a poor job, haven't flashed the chimley and lots of light can be seen in the roof. and the gutters hadn't been cleaned

also Monday after hearing that my neighbour across the road was positionally scammed asked my dad how he contacted these people and he explained that they knocked on his door and explained the whole story as above. that's when my heart dropped and realised that he had been scammed

the traders had also convinced my dad to fix the front porch for £750 and conservatory for an additional £4500. my dad wanted pcv. they had taken the top off and then told him they couldn't get the pcv and convinced him to go for a wooden roof. said nothing about planning permission and were going to use cheaper materials for the same price.. they came back on Tuesday 18th to start this but my neighbour said that he was going to give them his final payment because they hadn't finished the flashing, the roof and scaffolding was a mess and gutter hadn't been cleaned.

unware about the argument next door had with the rouge traders i phoned citizens advice on Tuesday  and they advised me that this is a scam. To not let them let them back on the property. found out they were using a fake business name and had fake telephone numbers which went to someone who doesn't know anything about business. contact the police and they contact action fraud. the police were going to come out Tuesday but were held up with another assignment.

they came back the Wednesday morning, i had asked work to work from my dads house so i could get it sorted. the rogue traders had returned to do the conservatory.

i phoned 101 to tell the police that i was going to ask them to leave. they said the police man was on his way.  

i explained to them that i know you are scammers and want you off my dads property. we argued for a bit. i made sure it was on camera. then i told him the police were on the way and they all left.

both trading standards and the police are involved now.

trading standards thinks Dad should be able to get the money back from the Halifax as they have not once questioned any of my Dad payments. if they had rung him and asked why he sent the money and how these people approached (door to door) then they would have flagged this as a scam.

i had an instance where last month i transferred £2000 from Starling to Chase so that i could get a better interest rate. Starling were very very good and was asking me why am i transferring the money, even though both accounts were in my name. asking if i was in any danger, asking if I'm being forced against my will. it was a good 15 minuets, 

My Dad send 5 payments totalling £25k (would of been more if i didn't put a stop to it) and the Halifax did nothing, the fraud department was not sure why they contacted him last October but did not question these transaction. they kept pushing him for more and more payments for materials and labour.

we've gotten 2 quotes to fix and replace the whole roof with new tiles. one for just over £11k and the other for £4120

i have tried to file a complaint but Halifax aren't having it as they have done some work which is poor and was unfinished. (if the scaffolding had come down we wouldn't if known)  even though both trading standards, action fraud and the police all say its a scam and they are well known scammers .  where do we go from here with getting the money back? Halifax have been awful

DE_612183

How did he make the payments?

If it's via a banking app or online normally you'd get warning that if you ignore you do so at your own peril.

If he actually took out the cash - then the branch should have alerted the manager and possibly intervened.

If it was a cheque there's nothing they can do.

What do you think Halifax have done wrong?
What do you think they should have done?

born_again

Guessing that he transferred paying either via phone app or internet banking. Where you answer the questions. So Halifax act on the answers given. 
Sadly when people do this, the bank can do nothing.
Not a APP scam as such. So afraid this is not down to bank to refund.

lisyloo

query large payments?
Those of us who try to make legitimate large payments frequently get checked.
For example my mum sent all her children a gift and had to be available on the phone to confirm the transactions  each time (lloyds I think).

user1977

But even if queried, presumably dad would have told the bank he intended to make the payments. 

catfriend1985

DE_612183 said:

How did he make the payments?

If it's via a banking app or online normally you'd get warning that if you ignore you do so at your own peril.

If he actually took out the cash - then the branch should have alerted the manager and possibly intervened.

If it was a cheque there's nothing they can do.

What do you think Halifax have done wrong?
What do you think they should have done?

it was internet banking though the faster payment method, 

they should of contacted him and asked him about the transaction. 

when did a transfer from starling to chase which both accounts had my name Starling rang me and was very good in making sure that i wasn't being scammed.

my farther being old and vulnerable i feel Halifax should of rang him when the first transaction was made.

they did this in October but failed to this time.

lisyloo

@catfriend - you say you've "tried" to make a complaint.
Have you (or your dad) gone through the formal complaints procedure? this should give you access to the financial ombudsman service at some point.
Is your dad recorded as vulnerable with them?
The complaint might have to come from your dad but you can of course draft it for him.

Aylesbury_Duck

You should wait for the police and Trading Standards to continue and complete their work.  I know that TS can be successful in obtaining money from banks in some circumstances, but it's not a given.

Halifax will know your father's age, but is he registered as vulnerable with them?  They can't just assume vulnerability. He is clearly capable of registering for and using internet banking, which many vulnerable people are not capable of. If Halifax checked the first payment with him and he confirmed it was legitimate, perhaps that's why their systems didn't feel the need to check the subsequent payments.  It's a delicate balancing act between giving customers a degree of freedom and autonomy which everyone wants, and protecting customers by putting multiple checks or even blocks in place.  No one likes those checks until they've been scammed, and then they want to know why there weren't effective.

Ultimately, if TS aren't able to get any money back for your father, you should complain formally to Halifax.  Once you've exhausted Halifax's complaints process you can go to the ombudsman to see if they take a different view.

catfriend1985

lisyloo said:

@catfriend - you say you've "tried" to make a complaint.
Have you (or your dad) gone through the formal complaints procedure? this should give you access to the financial ombudsman service at some point.
Is your dad recorded as vulnerable with them?
The complaint might have to come from your dad but you can of course draft it for him.

I've gone through the formal complaints procedure and have a reference number which was done today. So nest step is to wait 5 days for a result. so if we aren't happy with the outcome we should contact the financial ombudsman?

he wasn't  recorded as vulnerable. i asked Halifax that if a payment is over £500 they should ring him.

I'll have to draft the complaint for my dad as he is unable to do so.

thank you

Aylesbury_Duck

catfriend1985 said:

lisyloo said:

@catfriend - you say you've "tried" to make a complaint.
Have you (or your dad) gone through the formal complaints procedure? this should give you access to the financial ombudsman service at some point.
Is your dad recorded as vulnerable with them?
The complaint might have to come from your dad but you can of course draft it for him.

I've gone through the formal complaints procedure and have a reference number which was done today. So nest step is to wait 5 days for a result. so if we aren't happy with the outcome we should contact the financial ombudsman?

he wasn't  recorded as vulnerable. i asked Halifax that if a payment is over £500 they should ring him.

I'll have to draft the complaint for my dad as he is unable to do so.

thank you

I'd seriously consider whether your father should have access to internet banking.  If he's unable to draft a complaint letter, is it reasonable to assume he may make errors with online banking?  I'm not talking specifically about the rogue trader situation, but more general errors he could make.

Putting the £500 limit is a good step, but realistically, had they rung him each time he made one of the payments to the rogue roofer, what would he have said?  Please go ahead, no doubt.

eskbanker

catfriend1985 said:

I've gone through the formal complaints procedure

[...]

I'll have to draft the complaint for my dad as he is unable to do so.

Surely you'll already have done that if a complaint has been logged?

catfriend1985 said:

I've gone through the formal complaints procedure and have a reference number which was done today. So nest step is to wait 5 days for a result. so if we aren't happy with the outcome we should contact the financial ombudsman?

You have to wait until the earlier of their final response or eight weeks before escalating to FOS.