Advice on new job - how have things changed over the last 16 years?

elsmandino

Hi there.

I am thinking of changing jobs (not a career change, just other opportunities) as I feel I am stagnating and there are many jobs out there that are considerably better paid than my current one.

I have had the same job for 16 years and things have certainly changed a lot.

I live and work in the home counties (about a 30 minute drive) and I was looking at whether a job in London is currently worth it any more.

Is there such a thing as London Wages anymore, given that people often work from home?

I personally work two days from home but I know quite a few people that work full time from home, now.

Do many office-based jobs allow working from home, now?

I have to try and work out how much extra I need to earn to consider whether a job, back in the city, is worth it (in terms of not only finances but also travel time) but it is so difficult to try and work that out, these days.

I would be happy to commute 1.5 hours door to door but only if it were, say, 1-2 times a week but anything more than that would only be worth it if the pay increase (including the costs of the commute) were quite considerable.

Any general pointers would be much appreciated.

Mark_d

I've not heard of "London Wages" but my current office is in London and my salary reflects that.  I've mostly been working from home since COVID but my pay hasn't dropped.

In my industry few companies are completely remote.  Most companies allow working from home 2-3 days a week.

I understand the feeling of stagnating by being in the same job for a long time...but now that I've found a job I really love I don't think I'd change. I have a lot of freedom in my job and it pays well even though I know I could earn more elsewhere.

Life is about more than just your job.  There is so much to enjoy and achieve outside work.

elsmandino

Thanks Mark - out of interest, how did you get the job and how did you negotiate things like salary and working from home terms?

What industry are you in? 

I feel that I need to be at least somewhat prepared for any job interviews, for when this comes up.

I work in insurance and, when I first started, there was no working from home and people that worked in London got paid more to offset the fact that they were spending more money and time getting in to the office in the first place.

Working from home has completely changed the scene, it would seem.

Savvy_Sue

I think it's London Weighting which the OP is thinking of. Google says it's still a thing. 

I hear different things about how much WFH is going on. Some employers are very keen to have everyone back in the office, whether or not it makes sense. Some have fully remote staff. Others do a bit of both. 

I haven't commuted in London for a very long time, but it's not something I'd want to do ever ever again. But that's me, and my journey was usually standing room only, so little chance to read a book etc. To be fair, I would usually fall asleep, standing up if necessary. 

lincroft1710

How much extra of your life will be spent commuting? "London Weighting" won't pay for losing hours getting in and out of one of the most congested cities in Europe


Remember trains do get cancelled especially in bad weather.

GingerTim

Yes, my employer pays the London Allowance - currently about £4.500 on top of base salary. 

Rosa_Damascena

elsmandino said:

Hi there.

I am thinking of changing jobs (not a career change, just other opportunities) as I feel I am stagnating and there are many jobs out there that are considerably better paid than my current one.

I have had the same job for 16 years and things have certainly changed a lot.

I live and work in the home counties (about a 30 minute drive) and I was looking at whether a job in London is currently worth it any more.

Is there such a thing as London Wages anymore, given that people often work from home?

I personally work two days from home but I know quite a few people that work full time from home, now.

Do many office-based jobs allow working from home, now?

I have to try and work out how much extra I need to earn to consider whether a job, back in the city, is worth it (in terms of not only finances but also travel time) but it is so difficult to try and work that out, these days.

I would be happy to commute 1.5 hours door to door but only if it were, say, 1-2 times a week but anything more than that would only be worth it if the pay increase (including the costs of the commute) were quite considerable.

Any general pointers would be much appreciated.

This is easy to say, but when you realise that 3hrs of your day - more if there are delays - are effectively wasted (even once or twice a week) you will soon get fed up of the commute.

If you are an experienced or older worker, or one with caring commitments - forget the commute. There is much to be said for working locally.

CrazyBee787

Just make sure you are savvy about where you are going to, you don't want to go from the frying pan into the fire. I made a move career wise and it destroyed my career going from a long term commitment to now many short term opportunities, and it is quite a headache. Also management style like micro managing you want to avoid. However because of your long term CV, you will be more attractive to companies that are of a better standing/ more successful. Good luck.

Marcon

elsmandino said:

Hi there.

I am thinking of changing jobs (not a career change, just other opportunities) as I feel I am stagnating and there are many jobs out there that are considerably better paid than my current one.

I have had the same job for 16 years and things have certainly changed a lot.

I live and work in the home counties (about a 30 minute drive) and I was looking at whether a job in London is currently worth it any more.

Is there such a thing as London Wages anymore, given that people often work from home?

I personally work two days from home but I know quite a few people that work full time from home, now.

Do many office-based jobs allow working from home, now?

I have to try and work out how much extra I need to earn to consider whether a job, back in the city, is worth it (in terms of not only finances but also travel time) but it is so difficult to try and work that out, these days.

I would be happy to commute 1.5 hours door to door but only if it were, say, 1-2 times a week but anything more than that would only be worth it if the pay increase (including the costs of the commute) were quite considerable.

Any general pointers would be much appreciated.

Not obvious from your post what your top priority is. Earning more? A change of scene? Promotion opportunities?

What makes it 'so difficult...these days' to work out how much extra you need to earn to make a job in the city worthwhile? You know your current commuting costs (fuel and car maintenance etc) and can easily check the cost of fares to London, so that bit of the equation is simple enough. Only you can know how much you value your time and whether commuting on a train is an absolute pain, or a chance to use the journey productively (much depends on where you live and which rail company provides - or fails to provide! - the trains).

You say that many jobs are 'considerably better paid than your current one', so look in detail at what those jobs actually entail and (specifically) whether they offer WFH options. Generalities aren't going to help you here - you need to know what would really be available to you given your particular type of role. Realistically, are you a strong candidate in a good position to negotiate, with much to offer a potential employer in terms of experience and proven track record?

In short, do some proper research by trawling appropriate publications/websites, and think hard about whether after 16 years you really are still 'city sharp' or whether your current Home Counties cosiness (and I don't mean that in any derogatory sense - the pace of life is, in every sense, often rather different) might be preferable, especially on a snowy winter morning when trains are up the creek and you face spending an hour waiting on a freezing station platform... Commuting isn't a bundle of fun, even if it is only a couple of days a week.

You might also ponder on what, after 16 years, has triggered the idea of making a change now, and whether there is anything you could do to improve your prospects (and salary) where you are. Looking at your post of yesterday https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6596120/reality-check-can-someone-confirm-that-i-am-going-to-be-ok-45-and-getting-first-mortgage#latest are you really sure that now is a good time to be doing this? The comfort of familiarity in terms of your working life might be an anchor to hang on to while you try to adapt to the new status quo.

horsewithnoname

The civil service has London pay and allows 40% working from home, if the job is suitable. There is a variety of jobs, look on the Civil Service job site. 

The pay is the pay, you can’t negotiate, and be aware that getting to the top of the pay range can take a very long time because of below inflationary pay awards, and lack of increase at the top because of lack of rises in the senior civil service pay scale. 

DullGreyGuy

elsmandino said:

Thanks Mark - out of interest, how did you get the job and how did you negotiate things like salary and working from home terms?

What industry are you in? 

I feel that I need to be at least somewhat prepared for any job interviews, for when this comes up.

I work in insurance and, when I first started, there was no working from home and people that worked in London got paid more to offset the fact that they were spending more money and time getting in to the office in the first place.

Working from home has completely changed the scene, it would seem.

London Weighting, as a discrete thing, tends to be limited to those with a very strict pay scale system, where those in London (sometimes split between inner and outer) get a fixed additional amount to their salary. When I worked in such a place the outer London weighting was £1,500 per year gross and came no where near to offsetting the different cost of living on a net basis. 

In many other places they simply offer different salaries in different parts of the country. A former client paid PMs £80k in London, £65k in Scotland and £30k in India however its a bit harder to assess directly as India were all IT guys, the guys in Scotland were mainly operations whereas the ones in London were more business technical like Finance or Actuarial so its hard to say what is down to the location and what is down to the different subject matters. 


The answer now is... it's complicated. Most companies are wanting people in 2-3 days a week but there are exceptions. Certainly some of those exceptions, that are starting "now" (not pre-covid), are being paid less in exchange for only coming into the office once a month or such and are living hundreds of miles from London. 

We arent seeing the push for a return to 5 days a week like you hear is happening in the US but the frequency is slowly creeping up. Certainly in the City many companies downsized their office space during covid and right now wouldn't have the capacity to return to a full 5 day week... the problem they're having though is getting people to spread their 2-3 days a week because very few want to do Fridays and almost everyone wants to do Thursday as the classic social night in the City. 

Depending on what you do in Insurance and what grade you are may influence matters... there arent many, for example, running mass market consumer insurance operations/call centre teams in London because salaries and property are so much cheaper outside.