Is This Transfer Legal? Surely not...

tooldle

Are you saying that neither yourself or your brother have taken any action to ‘execute the estate’, other than your notification to the bank? 

If I were you, I’d at least attempt to clarify what has happened / is happening, by letter to both of your fellow executors, prior to seeing a solicitor. There seems to be a lot going on here and whilst it may look suspicious, making sure your letter is neutral (no accusations) is more likely to yield a result (accepting you may not receive a response).  Give a time frame for the parties to respond. 

Do you have a copy of the most recent will? If it has been redrafted to exclude the loan clause then sadly that ship has sailed. A charge against the property is the usual way to deal with such arrangements.
I’ve some experience of financial abuse with my own parent. If your dad had capacity, it has to be considered that he was aware of the transaction and agreeable to them. 

Edited to ask, if Dad’s house has been sold sometime ago, where was he living? 

Brainfire

tooldle said:

Are you saying that neither yourself or your brother have taken any action to ‘execute the estate’, other than your notification to the bank? 

Do you have a copy of the most recent will? If it has been redrafted to exclude the loan clause then sadly that ship has sailed. A charge against the property is the usual way to deal with such arrangements.

Edited to ask, if Dad’s house has been sold sometime ago, where was he living? 

I spoke to my brother the day after my father died and he assured me he was dealing with it all. I told him if be wasn't, I would, as no way did i want his daughter dealing with it - of course I've since found out that he dealt with nothing at all and left it all to her.

I have copies of both the wills plus copies of the loan agreements and correspondence between the original solicitor and my uncle and my parents. 

My father sold the house half price, but it was stipulated that he could live in it for the remainder of his life rent free, which turned it to be about 12 weeks.

As for contacting any of the other two executors at this point, that ship has also sailed.

elsien

The way you are drip feeding relevant bits of information throughout the thread is not particularly helpful In terms of the bigger picture.
I appreciate you are upset and you feel that your dad has been thoroughly ripped off, But there’s a difference between suggesting online access has been used to empty the account, when that isn’t the case and then that dad was coerced to giving up half his house without initially including the relevant information that it gave him a lifetime interest to live there. 

You really need to try and put emotion to one side  and stick to facts. 

Brainfire

elsien said:

The way you are drip feeding relevant bits of information throughout the thread is not particularly helpful In terms of the bigger picture.
I appreciate you are upset and you feel that your dad has been thoroughly ripped off, But there’s a difference between suggesting online access has been used to empty the account, when that isn’t the case and then that dad was coerced to giving up half his house without initially including the relevant information that it gave him a lifetime interest to live there. 

You really need to try and put emotion to one side  and stick to facts. 

I never at any point stated the online account was emptied the day after his death. The initial question was regarding what was left in the estate, but as people were asking questions I expanded a bit to territory that wasn't part of the original question.

doodling

Hi,

bobster2 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

bobster2 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Legally, executors have a very broad right to manage the deceased's assets, from the moment of death, providing they are not acting to the detriment of the interests of (all) the beneficiaries.

Not by impersonating the deceased - which is what using the deceased person's internet banking log in details amounts to.

They need to access funds in bank acounts using appropriate methods - i.e. asking the bank for them.

They're entitled to access the money.

You might argue that they fraudulently obtained the money but as they were entitled to access it anyway I very much doubt the CPS would be interested in pursuing a case for fraud.

In addition, they may not have complied with the bank's terms and conditions but it isn't clear what loss the bank has suffered so I doubt they'd take any action.

The only kind of criminal legal case that will have any merit is one where someone can show, beyond reasonable doubt, that their actions were intended to be a theft perpetuated against the beneficiaries of the will.  There may of course be the possibility of a civil case to reclaim the money if things are less clear cut.

Even if they are ultimately entitled to the contents of the account as beneficiaries - nobody should be obtaining this by impersonating the deceased. Doing this online - see Computer Misuse Act 1990.

As an analogy - when someone dies do you think it would be appropriate for an executor to walk into a branch of a bank and not tell the bank about the death. But instead walk up to the counter and make a cash withdrawal using the deceased person's debit card and pin number - i.e impersonating the deceased?

You mean like someone who is inform sending a relative to the cash machine with their card and pin (not that I recommend anyone does that)?

Generally the advice many of us try to give on this board is about what is the correct and legal approach to take - not on what CPS will bother prosecuting.

I agree what that executor did was wrong and am absolutely not recommending it as a course of action for anyone.

The police and CPS are not usually keen to get involved in disagreements between executors so it unhelpful to suggest it as an option.

The best way for OP to progress is to work round it, if possible, not start a (probably fruitless) legal process.

Having said that, the OP has provided more information which I haven't yet got my head round so all our previous comments might be moot.

tooldle

Brainfire said:

tooldle said:

Are you saying that neither yourself or your brother have taken any action to ‘execute the estate’, other than your notification to the bank? 

Do you have a copy of the most recent will? If it has been redrafted to exclude the loan clause then sadly that ship has sailed. A charge against the property is the usual way to deal with such arrangements.

Edited to ask, if Dad’s house has been sold sometime ago, where was he living? 

I spoke to my brother the day after my father died and he assured me he was dealing with it all. I told him if be wasn't, I would, as no way did i want his daughter dealing with it - of course I've since found out that he dealt with nothing at all and left it all to her.

I have copies of both the wills plus copies of the loan agreements and correspondence between the original solicitor and my uncle and my parents. 

My father sold the house half price, but it was stipulated that he could live in it for the remainder of his life rent free, which turned it to be about 12 weeks.

As for contacting any of the other two executors at this point, that ship has also sailed.

Your choice entirely. If you choose to go with a solicitor, I’m sure the solicitor will be happy to make the necessary checks. Whilst solicitors are normally happy to write letters on behalf of their client, it is not in my experience normal to commence action aledging fraud without evidence to support the claim. As things stand there could be many reasons why these transactions have happened. It is usual for an executor to collect in the estate funds and not to distribute, until sufficient time has passed to allow debtors to come forwards. According to your timeline, it’s early days.