Is This Transfer Legal? Surely not...

MSE_ForumTeam5

We've moved this to the appropriate board

Brainfire

Yup, bank have confirmed this. I wouldn't think being named an executor just gives you carte blanche to do as you please, especially since she didn't notify them of his passing the day before.... I actually notified them about a week later after I got an email that his Virgin direct debit had been cancelled. This could only have been done through his online banking. 

Anyway, the bottom line is there's now £17,000 unaccounted for that was my father's. I think it's solicitor time as a first step.... To me, no one should have free access to his banking unless they had power of attorney, which no one did.

poppystar

If you and this person are both executors of the estate you should be working together on the notifications to organisations and looking at the estate values. You have every right, actually a duty, to ask your fellow executor where that money is now. Asking maybe where she has moved the money to because you know it belongs to the estate. Are you both beneficiaries too? What is the total likely value of the estate? Is it enough to warrant paying a solicitor if you are not able to work together as executors? 

Brainfire

poppystar said:

If you and this person are both executors of the estate you should be working together on the notifications to organisations and looking at the estate values. You have every right, actually a duty, to ask your fellow executor where that money is now. Asking maybe where she has moved the money to because you know it belongs to the estate. Are you both beneficiaries too? What is the total likely value of the estate? Is it enough to warrant paying a solicitor if you are not able to work together as executors? 

It's a tale of woe. She's my brother's daughter and has fleeced and coerced my father for years, so we have no contact whatsoever. She 'bought' my father's house for 50% of its value in September last year and it's been on the market for 2 weeks now already. Anything I have to say will need to be through a solicitor.

bobster2

Nobody should be using a deceased person's internet banking log in details to transfer money anywhere for any purpose - not someone who had POA before the death (which expires on death), or the executor/personal respresentative.

For funeral costs, an executor/personal representative should ask the bank to pay the funeral provider directly.

doodling

Hi,

Legally, executors have a very broad right to manage the deceased's assets, from the moment of death, providing they are not acting to the detriment of the interests of (all) the beneficiaries.

Practically, if one of multiple executors had done this then I would be expecting the other executors (and the beneficiaries) to be seeking an explanation from them and watching them like a hawk from that point onwards.  Obviously if that executor was a beneficiary then any "loans" like that would be deducted from their inheritance before it was paid.

Note that life insurance might not form part of the estate so may be a separate issue.

elsien

Brainfire said:

Yup, bank have confirmed this. I wouldn't think being named an executor just gives you carte blanche to do as you please, especially since she didn't notify them of his passing the day before.... I actually notified them about a week later after I got an email that his Virgin direct debit had been cancelled. This could only have been done through his online banking. 

Anyway, the bottom line is there's now £17,000 unaccounted for that was my father's. I think it's solicitor time as a first step.... To me, no one should have free access to his banking unless they had power of attorney, which no one did.

Of he had capacity around his finances up to the point of his death, then other people can access his account  with his consent if he had put a third-party mandate in place. Obviously this would end on death or when he lost capacity. 

Without knowing anything about your father‘s health, the presumption is that someone has capacity unless evidenced otherwise so any bank account access prior to his death may have been entirely legitimate. 

Brainfire

elsien said:

Brainfire said:

Yup, bank have confirmed this. I wouldn't think being named an executor just gives you carte blanche to do as you please, especially since she didn't notify them of his passing the day before.... I actually notified them about a week later after I got an email that his Virgin direct debit had been cancelled. This could only have been done through his online banking. 

Anyway, the bottom line is there's now £17,000 unaccounted for that was my father's. I think it's solicitor time as a first step.... To me, no one should have free access to his banking unless they had power of attorney, which no one did.

Of he had capacity around his finances up to the point of his death, then other people can access his account  with his consent if he had put a third-party mandate in place. Obviously this would end on death or when he lost capacity. 

Without knowing anything about your father‘s health, the presumption is that someone has capacity unless evidenced otherwise so any bank account access prior to his death may have been entirely legitimate. 

Prior to his death, yes. This £5k transfer was the day after. Another £350 was spent from his account at an online ladies sports shop 5 days later. The remaining £1.2k was transferred to her account on 16th Jan and the account closed. 

He had his physical issues but definitely had all his faculties when he died.

bobster2

doodling said:

Hi,

Legally, executors have a very broad right to manage the deceased's assets, from the moment of death, providing they are not acting to the detriment of the interests of (all) the beneficiaries.

Not by impersonating the deceased - which is what using the deceased person's internet banking log in details amounts to.

They need to access funds in bank acounts using appropriate methods - i.e. asking the bank for them.

Brainfire

bobster2 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Legally, executors have a very broad right to manage the deceased's assets, from the moment of death, providing they are not acting to the detriment of the interests of (all) the beneficiaries.

Not by impersonating the deceased - which is what using the deceased person's internet banking log in details amounts to.

They need to access funds in bank acounts using appropriate methods - i.e. asking the bank for them.

These were my thoughts exactly.... it's just not right, executor or not. I'm sure if the bank had been informed of his death the day it happened she wouldn't have been able to do this, no matter who she was, unless there was a death certificate and appropriate documentation to go with it