UKPC DCB Legal Ashton Moss Leisure Park - at the N180 Questionnaire stage

innervortex

It was too dark to see properly and I parked between two parked cars in what looked like a parking space but turned out not to be a marked bay. The ticket was also very faintly printed and in places unreadable. I appealed to UKPC but they didn't address a single one of my points in their rejection. I didn't appeal again with POPLA as I felt I was just being made to jump through hoops and my points would be ignored again. I realise it would have been better to jump through that next hoop.

I then had the usual various debt collector company letters for years, the latest ones all from DCB Legal.

Two years ago I contacted Ashton Cineworld Manager to complain about the problem with the car park lighting in that section of the car park, which was still an issue years later, and I explained about the PCN and the debt collectors. They said they couldn't do anything but they did give me the name of the landowner, BellRock Group. 

I contacted BellRock Group and complained about the lighting and UKPC. The next time I went to Cineworld the lighting was fixed. It is comparatively really bright now. I didn't receive any more debt collectors letters for a long time so I thought that BellRock Group had got the lighting fixed and got my PCN cancelled but couldn't be bothered to respond to me or notify me. However, as my PCN is due to expire in December this year as will have been 6 years, DCB Legal have started again and moving this towards court. I'm at the N180 directions questionnaire stage. 

I've only just found all this information on here. I feel my defense wasn't as thorough as it could have been had I seen some of these templates. I also have some worries about the advice on here to tick 'no' to suitable for determination without a hearing. Although I firmly believe the PCN to be unfairly issued I'm not sure how good a case it is legally. I'm broke and how much could this end up costing me in legal fees? Have I ruined my case by not having done a POPLA appeal?

I think dark car parks are a serious safety concern, especially for people going to the cinema alone as I was, and of course lead to people making mistakes too and ethically worth fighting for. But do people ever get their cases dropped or win on lighting issues? The too faintly to read in places printed ticket may work if not. I've also learned on here that I think I made another mistake by submitting evidence with my defense. 

I tried contacting BellRock Group again this week but no response so far again. I haven't tried contacting Ashton Under Lyne MP Angela Rayner yet. Not sure she'd have to time to be bothered with this, although car park lighting is a safety issue for women especially. 

So I dislike UKPC and DCB Legal as much as anyone but I've probably made many mistakes with all these proceedings and could do with some advice as to how to proceed. 

Thanks

Gr1pr

Just follow the advice in the second post in the newbies sticky thread in announcements near the top of the forum plus the 12 steps in the defence template thread in announcements too

If the claim is for a single pcn,  then assuming that it reaches your local civil court   ( is it Manchester   ?  ) then if you were unlucky and lost then a typical total amount to pay in full within 30 days would be about  £212

Dcb legal tender to discontinue before the hearing fee has to be paid,  so you need a strong witness statement plus Exhibits bundle by the deadline instruction on the local court order when you receive it , usually around 2 weeks before the hearing date 

Coupon-mad

The NEWBIES thread already tells you that if you lose at a hearing, you'd pay LESS than the claim. I've no idea why so many people think they are risking higher costs. That's not how small claims work. It's low cost and Judges aren't stupid.

my PCN is due to expire in December this year as will have been 6 years

That's irrelevant as they filed a claim in time.

Just follow the 12 steps in the Template Defence thread & offer nothing at Mediation call stage, or offer a tenner or so, if you fancy trying that. Often works - wait till Mediation stage though.

Of course you want the case determined with you attending, if it gets to a hearing! Certainly NOT heard in the papers.

But DCB Legal will almost certainly discontinue this Summer anyway.

1505grandad

In case of future requirements can you post the Defence you filed verbatim please.

innervortex

1505grandad said:

In case of future requirements can you post the Defence you filed verbatim please.

Sure:

"When I parked on the Ashton Under Lyne Cineworld car park you could hardly see as the car park lighting in that section of the car park was not working at the time, photographic evidence at the time confirms this. 

 

I parked between two parked cars.

When I came out of the cinema and entered my car, I saw a parking ticket had been issued and attached to my windscreen. The print on the parking ticket was very faint and on parts of the ticket unreadable e.g. the car registration and the amount of charge.

I have looked through all my paperwork on this matter and there is no trace of a Notice to Keeper and I am sure I haven’t received one.

In the circumstances, I think the issue of the parking ticket was unfair, that UK Parking Control have not issued the necessary paperwork correctly and the claim is not proportionate to the alleged offence."

Gr1pr

If you appealed to UKPC it would have been in response to the NTK PCN letter,  or something similar , so you definitely received something 

If you admitted as to who was driving,  then you are defending as the admitted driver 

The above statement is more like an anecdotal witness statement,  rather than a defence 

The claimant ukpc will be claiming the pcn charge,  typically £100 , plus legal and court fees,  which could add up to about £212 for a single pcn,  so not the figure they listed on the claim form 

It may have been unfair,  but its either an enforceable contract on that private property,  or not,  if the alleged breach were to be upheld,  fairness rarely features in this topic 

The disproportionate argument died a death 10 years ago in the Beavis case

innervortex

 Gr1pr said:

If you appealed to UKPC it would have been in response to the NTK PCN letter,  or something similar , so you definitely received something 

Had the name of the company and web addresses and info on the ticket itself. I went online to view photos. Maybe that counts though.

Gr1pr said:

The claimant ukpc will be claiming the pcn charge,  typically £100 , plus legal and court fees,  which could add up to about £212 for a single pcn,  so not the figure they listed on the claim form.

£212 is preferable to the £318 they're asking for if it does get that far. 

Coupon-mad

We agree. No brainer to carry on and defend.

Gr1pr

innervortex said:

 Gr1pr said:

If you appealed to UKPC it would have been in response to the NTK PCN letter,  or something similar , so you definitely received something 

Had the name of the company and web addresses and info on the ticket itself. I went online to view photos. Maybe that counts though.

So was it a company vehicle  ?  Or hire or lease   ?  Or is your name on the V5c log book as RK  ?

If its a company or similar vehicle,  you would not receive an NTK PC letter , they would 

innervortex

Gr1pr said:

innervortex said:

 Gr1pr said:

If you appealed to UKPC it would have been in response to the NTK PCN letter,  or something similar , so you definitely received something 

Had the name of the company and web addresses and info on the ticket itself. I went online to view photos. Maybe that counts though.

So was it a company vehicle  ?  Or hire or lease   ?  Or is your name on the V5c log book as RK  ?

If its a company or similar vehicle,  you would not receive an NTK PC letter , they would 

I mean UKPC's details, web address, and a web address to appeal it was on the ticket itself. 

Gr1pr

innervortex said:

Gr1pr said:

innervortex said:

 Gr1pr said:

If you appealed to UKPC it would have been in response to the NTK PCN letter,  or something similar , so you definitely received something 

Had the name of the company and web addresses and info on the ticket itself. I went online to view photos. Maybe that counts though.

So was it a company vehicle  ?  Or hire or lease   ?  Or is your name on the V5c log book as RK  ?

If its a company or similar vehicle,  you would not receive an NTK PC letter , they would 

I mean UKPC's details, web address, and a web address to appeal it was on the ticket itself. 

Was it a windscreen PCN and did you appeal it as driver   ?