Selling house - regularise works carried over by previous owner (planning in place)

user1977

Like I said above, the option is most likely to be just sell it as it is, and if a buyer asks, offer then an indemnity policy.

Were your works related in any way to the previous works? Obviously, if building control had seen what was already there, and didn't raise any concerns then, they're hardly likely to do so a further 6+ years later.

I'm assuming the problem is just the lack of certification and there's nothing objectively defective in the works.

TheJP

ReX said:

Hello,

I am looking for some advice regarding an issue I’ve discovered while preparing to sell my house. To my surprise, I found out that there was no final inspection for the works carried out by the previous owner, which include a loft extension and a kitchen extension.

The planning permission is in place and approved, and there is an initial notice under building control, but no recorded completion date. On my council portal, the details show:

• Application Type: Initial Notice

• Decision Status: Historic Transfer5

In comparison, for another structural work I carried out myself in the same house, the Application Type is also "Initial Notice," but the Decision Status is "Valid" with both a Completion Date and a Decision Date populated.

Unfortunately, the solicitor I used for the purchase back in April 2017 didn’t flag this issue. I had a terrible experience with that solicitor overall, and as it was my first house purchase in the UK, I wasn’t aware of these processes at the time.

I’d appreciate advice on a couple of points:

1. Do I have any grounds to claim against the solicitor for not raising this during the purchase process? Was it their responsibility to ensure the proper documentation was in place?

2. What is the best path to regularize the situation? I’d prefer to avoid creating openings or removing plasterboards for inspection, if possible, though I understand this might be necessary.

3. Additionally, I doubt I’ll be able to obtain any calculation documents for the beams installed - what do I do about this?

Thanks for your help... I feel a bit like an idiot now, so trying my best to save the situation.

Did you tell your solicitor about the extension on the property? Unless you did then they have no idea on what documentation to ask the seller for.

Bigphil1474

user1977 said:

Like I said above, the option is most likely to be just sell it as it is, and if a buyer asks, offer then an indemnity policy.

Were your works related in any way to the previous works? Obviously, if building control had seen what was already there, and didn't raise any concerns then, they're hardly likely to do so a further 6+ years later.

I'm assuming the problem is just the lack of certification and there's nothing objectively defective in the works.

Indemnity policies don't cover the cost of repairing defects. All they do is cover you for legal costs should there be any need for legal action. A buyer shouldn't be happy accepting an indemnity policy for lack of BC sign off - they should be asking for proof it has been signed off by BC. 

user1977

Bigphil1474 said:

user1977 said:

Like I said above, the option is most likely to be just sell it as it is, and if a buyer asks, offer then an indemnity policy.

Were your works related in any way to the previous works? Obviously, if building control had seen what was already there, and didn't raise any concerns then, they're hardly likely to do so a further 6+ years later.

I'm assuming the problem is just the lack of certification and there's nothing objectively defective in the works.

Indemnity policies don't cover the cost of repairing defects. All they do is cover you for legal costs should there be any need for legal action. A buyer shouldn't be happy accepting an indemnity policy for lack of BC sign off - they should be asking for proof it has been signed off by BC. 

Like I said, I'm assuming there's nothing defective in the works. The OP hasn't suggested there are any defects and the only issue seems to be ticking the box of whether the works were signed off by BC 8+ years ago.

Albermarle

silvercar said:

If the works are over 8 years old, I would suspect that telling the buyer to rely on their own survey would carry more weight than it would on works completed in the last year.

A family member is buying a bungalow with a large loft extension, that appeared to have been done many years ago.
She spoke to a surveyor with a view to booking him in for a survey. He said without BC sign off he would be forced to make a poor report. He said obviously he would look for any signs of problems, but even if there weren't any, he would still have to make it clear in his report that there could be underlying issues with the structure which he could not see.
In fact his 'friendly warning' was without BC sign off, better to run away, if only because it could cause problems with selling in future.
Maybe another surveyor would take a different view, I do not know.
Anyway in this case it did have BC sign off, so all OK.

Green_hopeful

It depends on the works and what information you have. 

We had a boiler that had been installed without building regs. We didn’t worry when we bought but 8 years later our buyers made a right old drama out of it. I knew my heating engineer had been maintaining it for 8 years and it probably would need replacing fairly soon. I refused to take out an indemnity policy because I couldn’t see what they were hoping to insure. I agreed to pay the price if they wanted to waste the money. It just went away and became a non issue. 

A loft conversion done historically with no paperwork would be a different situation. It might be unsafe or need intrusive inspection.

I think the poster is somewhere between. It sounds like it was built properly with planning and building regs but the completion certificate was missed so it wasn’t signed off. So they need to regularise the situation. 

Scotbot

If you want to get a regularisation certificate you have to contact building control at the local council.  They will advise (after you have paid a fee) what needs to be done however it may not be possible for them to approve it without a lot of disruption to the property.  This will invalidate any indemnity but since you have planning permission I don't think  indemnity is of much value. 

Given the property is 8 years old I would contact some surveyors and find out the cost of a structural survey. You could then offer this option to any buyer.

A property I was looking to buy did not have building control sign off and the vendor consistently tried to bluff their way out of it saying it wasn't required,  work was minimal etc. It wasn't: we were talking about  an extension that was 20% of the property on a square metre basis. Turns out they had done the work themselves. I ended up pulling out as I just didn't trust them.  So my advice is be upfront with any buyer at the start of the process. Anyone can make a mistake, as you have found out, but honesty goes a long way IMO

sheramber

When we bought our last house the attic conversion had had planning permission but no building control certificate.The seller offered this information saying they knew they would have to apply for it. 

The conversion had been done 8 years earlier.
Building control could not issue a certificate but issued a letter of comfort after inspecting the house and advising three items that needed upgrading to the current regulations. 

Our solicitor had back a retainer until the letter was issued. The seller arranged and paid for the work to be done. 

ReX

user1977 said:
I'm assuming the problem is just the lack of certification and there's nothing objectively defective in the works.

This is also my assumption, but I am not sure what happens in a scenario where the BC finds something off.

Will I be given a deadline to fix these things? Or what happens?

TheJP said:

Did you tell your solicitor about the extension on the property? Unless you did then they have no idea on what documentation to ask the seller for.

The solicitor knew about the extension as they sent me the planning permission files.

Is there a time window (like 6 years, I read somewhere) after which the solicitor is not any more responsible for this?

Scotbot said:

If you want to get a regularisation certificate you have to contact building control at the local council.  They will advise (after you have paid a fee) what needs to be done however it may not be possible for them to approve it without a lot of disruption to the property.  This will invalidate any indemnity but since you have planning permission I don't think  indemnity is of much value. 

Given the property is 8 years old I would contact some surveyors and find out the cost of a structural survey. You could then offer this option to any buyer.

I have a structural survey, which did not find anything wrong beside the lack of BC approval.

But there is also a big disclaimer about the fact that the structural survey could not see behind the plaster, so can't comment on the beams installed.

Could you explain on why you think that the indemnity policy is not of much value since I have planning permission?

And finally... what happens if I enquiry the BC team and they find something off? Will I be given a deadline to fix these things? Or what?

From a visual inspection, the extensions where built according to plans. Openings are supported by beams. Things seem in order, but who knows...

sheramber said:

When we bought our last house the attic conversion had had planning permission but no building control certificate.The seller offered this information saying they knew they would have to apply for it. 

The conversion had been done 8 years earlier.
Building control could not issue a certificate but issued a letter of comfort after inspecting the house and advising three items that needed upgrading to the current regulations.

This is an interesting route.

Was it invasive? Did they need to remove plasterboard, etc. to issue such letter? Or it was based on what they could see and the fact that the work has been carried over 8 years ago?

Scotbot

Indemnity insurance covers the buyer for legal costs should the local authority enforce action. Helpful if there is no planning permission and the council make the buyer take down the extension but after 8 years no one is going to be checking and it doesn't cover the buyer for costs of fixing the problem. As a buyer I wouldn't proceed with indemnity  it basically covers the layers and vendors backsides

https://www.haart.co.uk/buying/buying-advice/a-guide-to-indemnity-insurance/

If building control cannot confirm the work meets the standards at the time they won't issue a regularisation certificate. From what you are saying you would at least need to expose the beams for them to issue the certificate 

If you talk to building control they will give advice but you don't have to take it. It does mean you can't take out indemnity insurance but I question the value of that for an 8 year old extension