New Driveway/no footpath

Pnutter

Hi!

I'm looking to build a driveway in our front garden to create two parking spaces and am at a loss as to whether we need dropped kerb permission.

It's the end of a cul-de-sac (Cornwall), so the planned drive faces onto the turning circle. There's no footpath in front of our house, just straight onto the road but still a kerb-like edge marking the edge of our plot (5-10cm, about half a normal pavement height). It's an adopted road and the neighbour has had a drive onto the turning circle for decades.

I've trawled this forum, Reddit, Pistonheads, DIYnot etc. for hours but to no avail. My simple mind thinks no pavement = no permission required right? We're getting permeable paving grid so SUDS is not an issue.

I'd just have some planks there as a ramp but would rather it's officially a drive so it gives legal rights.

Thanks in advance!

Emmia

I think if you need planks and are in doubt I'd apply for the permission and do it properly. 

Section62

Pnutter said:

...
It's the end of a cul-de-sac (Cornwall), so the planned drive faces onto the turning circle. There's no footpath in front of our house, just straight onto the road but still a kerb-like edge marking the edge of our plot (5-10cm, about half a normal pavement height). It's an adopted road and the neighbour has had a drive onto the turning circle for decades.

I've trawled this forum, Reddit, Pistonheads, DIYnot etc. for hours but to no avail. My simple mind thinks no pavement = no permission required right? We're getting permeable paving grid so SUDS is not an issue.
...

The legislation you need to look at is Section 184 of the Highways Act 1980 -

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/184

If the land between your boundary and the carriageway is part of the highway then whether there is a footway or not makes no difference, as 184(1) uses the words "...across a kerbed footway or a verge...".

But if (as it sounds like) your land extends all the way to the edge of the carriageway (for example stops at the back of the kerb) then you have neither a kerbed footway nor verge.  How sure are you that your plot goes all the way to the edge marking, and there isn't a strip of highway land or service strip?

If there is no kerbed footway or verge then technically S184(1) doesn't apply.

However, most highway authorities have taken their own interpretation of S184 and talk of needing 'consent' or 'permission' to construct a vehicle crossover in all cases, and threaten all kinds of action and claim S184 makes it 'illegal' to drive over a footway if no dropped kerb is provided.  They would probably lose if someone went to court to challenge this, but sadly the cost of legally challenging an ultra vires decision would almost certainly exceed the cost of just paying for their 'permisison' and them to install a dropped kerb.

What would be unlawful is if you needed to carry out work in the highway without the consent of the highway authority, or if you place obstructions in the highway - so if you were thinking of putting a plank on the carriageway so you can bump up the kerb more easily then this wouldn't be allowed, and could be a big (financial) risk to you if someone managed to trip over it.

So essentially what you want to do is probably legal if you do own (as non-highway) all the land up to the edge of the carriageway, and so long as you don't do anything (including putting down planks) on the highway.  Plus you would need to have permitted development rights for the formation of a vehicle access - so not if the cul-de-sac counts as a classified road or if permitted development rights don't exist (or have been removed) for your property.

But unless you get a proper dropped kerb installed by the highway authority you can expect to be told what you are doing is 'illegal', and when you come to sell the property the buyer's solicitor will almost certainly ask to see the council's 'permission' for the crossover and cause you problems if you don't have anything to show them.

prettyandfluffy

Ask your Highways authority.

Section62

prettyandfluffy said:

Ask your Highways authority.

They will almost certainly say...

1) We can't tell you unless you make a crossover application and pay our fee.

then

2) Yes, you need a crossover, now pay us to put one in.

...regardless of whether that is actually the case.

Albermarle

 It's an adopted road and the neighbour has had a drive onto the turning circle for decades.

How do they access the road, do they just drive over the small kerb ?

Pnutter

Albermarle said:

 It's an adopted road and the neighbour has had a drive onto the turning circle for decades.

How do they access the road, do they just drive over the small kerb ?

Sorry slow reply..., yes just drive over the kerb with a plank as a ramp.

For future readers: I think I've found a pretty definite answer from user 'Eachpenny' in this thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5862288/kerbs-without-pavement/p2

In short you still need permission even if there's no footway.