Moved to Cyprus aged 25 in 2004. No full years UK NI Contributions. CF83 for Class 2 Contributions?

Brit_in_Cyprus

I'm looking for confirmation I've understood the NI38 / CF83 eligibility correct, allowing me to contribute Class 2 payments from 2006 onwards - below is my history.

From the 1997/1998 period up until the 2003/2004 financial years I have 0 full years of paid contributions (year is not full) listed (all partial years, apart from 2001/2002 which shows 33 weeks as "self employed")
In total I paid a little under 500GBP into NI for these years as "employed". 

Since I lived in the UK from birth (1979 until 2004) I have met the qualification of being resident in the UK for 3 years before the periods I wish to voluntary contribute.

Up until I left the UK in the summer of 2004 I was working - although it must have been as Self Employed as I have the 2003/2004 showing as "Year is not full" along with zero contributions to NI. As far as I remember though I was working part time night shifts for an agency in a warehouse (maybe I wasn't earning enough to qualify for NI contributions at this time?)

My NI history is sporadic as I started University at 18 in 1997, and worked part time jobs other than a full year for a work placement in 1999 / 2000 (strange that period doesn't show as 2 full years contributions however it wasn't the best paid job unfortunately)

I was also working as self employed throughout various times through the period from 2001 - 2004 (admittedly I only remember once completing the self-assessment / paying 2GBP per week Class 2 contributions) - this must have been in the 2001/2002 period.

I believe I moved to Cyprus in September 2004, at which point I registered for self employment and continued until early 2009 when I set up my own limited company and became an employee of my own company (still to the present day)

I have completed my CF83 online this week, and explained that I was working for myself in the UK up until leaving (as well as the part time employment roles), and then registered as self-employed in Cyprus upon arrival, therefore (in my eyes) this covers the "continuous employment" requirement.

At no point after leaving the UK did I make contact with NI or any other government organisation to say I'd left the country other than when applying to renew UK passports (not sure if relevant)

I'm ideally looking for confirmation from the forum group knowledge if you believe I'll have sufficient grounds for paying Class 2 contributions, or would they have the right to impose Class 3 (or even worse not eligible at all) options. 

At 46, I never once considered the fact I could be entitled to contribute and receive a UK Pension until last week, and it's been a whirlwind of fact finding ever since, so any feedback would be great. Thank you

molerat

I suspect you are in with a better than 50/50 chance of being eligible for class 2 but only that reply to the CF83 will tell.  You will eligible for class 3 though.  How many years are on your record ?  You should at least have the 3 freebies for 16, 17 & 18 - you might need to read the text at the bottom of the list of years.  Does your forecast show any estimated figures ?

Brit_in_Cyprus

1997 - 1998 is literally the first year I have listed, even though at 16 I was working part time at Kwik Save (I believe I was being paid a huge 2.20 / hour!).

I've heard friends mention about free years for 16-18 but I've found no reference to this on my online pension forecast. I can only assume they don't list them here for some reason.

Estimated figures are also as below, but obviously based on further contributions.

What I'm a bit confused about is that the forecast seems to:
1) Count my 5 partial years as full years because:
       a) It mentions adding 22 years to my 5 years (221.20/35*27 = 170.65)
2) It doesn't take into account the 3 free years you've mentioned.

If the CF83 reply comes back at Class 3, do you know if they give reasons why they choose this option (or reasons why it's not Class 2) and do we have any appeal process?

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You can get your State Pension on xxxxxx 2047

Your forecast is £170.65 a week, £742.02 a month, £8,904.27 a year

Your forecast

• is not a guarantee and is based on the current law
• is based on your National Insurance record up to 5 April 2024
• assumes that you’ll contribute another 22 years
• does not include any increase due to inflation

You currently have 5 years on your record and you need at least 10 years to get any State Pension.

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Your National Insurance record before April 2006

It’s too late to pay for gaps in your National Insurance record before April 2006.

2005 to 2006

Year is not full

View 2005 to 2006 details

We are checking this year to see if it counts towards your pension. We’ll update your record when this is finished, you do not need to do anything.

-----------

2004 to 2005

Year is not full

View 2004 to 2005 details

It’s too late to pay for this year. You can usually only pay for the last 6 years.

-----------

2003 to 2004

Year is not full

View 2003 to 2004 details

You have contributions from

Paid employment: £xxxxx

It’s too late to pay for this year. You can usually only pay for the last 6 years.

-----------

2001 to 2002

Year is not full

View 2001 to 2002 details

You have contributions from

Self-employment: 33 weeks

It’s too late to pay for this year. You can usually only pay for the last 6 years.

-----------

2000 to 2001

Year is not full

View 2000 to 2001 details

You have contributions from

Paid employment: £xxxxx

It’s too late to pay for this year. You can usually only pay for the last 6 years.

-----------

1998 to 1999

Year is not full

View 1998 to 1999 details

You have contributions from

Paid employment: £xxxxx

It’s too late to pay for this year. You can usually only pay for the last 6 years.

-----------

1997 to 1998

Year is not full

View 1997 to 1998 details

You have contributions from

Paid employment: £xxxxx

It’s too late to pay for this year. You can usually only pay for the last 6 years.

Print this National Insurance record

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molerat

Have you looked at the full years list ?

Something like this

Those 5 full years must show up somewhere, part years cannot be combined to make full years.

It looks like you need another 8 years on top of the 22 going forward so hopefully you cant get those and a few more going back.

QrizB

molerat said:

Those 5 full years must show up somewhere

OP was born in 1979, so would have been 16 in 1995?

1995-96, 1996-97 aren't showing as available to buy, so could be two of those five?

Also 1999-2000 isn't in the list, so could be a third?

That's only three, though, so I'm wondering where the other two might be?

Brit_in_Cyprus

I hadn't noticed the 1999-2000 and 2002-2003 missing before - well caught.

Here's a complete list of my record.

You're correct on being born 1979 / 16 in 1995 when I left school (went on to 6th form college, and then university)

I understood that the 5 years couldn't be combined to make a full year (although I did work a full university placement year between 1999 / 2000).

molerat

Weird that it is not showing the full years, there was an option to show only gaps at one time.

Assuming you were born before 5 April 1979 that would give you 94-95, 95-96, and 96-97 as freebies plus 99-00 and 02-03 to make the 5.

Brit_in_Cyprus

I'm not sure if it's actually showing what it technically states it will do.

For clarity I've circled on what I click on to show all the years in the above images, and it does specifically say "View gaps in your record" - which it's technically doing.

As you've pointed out, it's not showing 94-95, 95-96, and 96-97  99-00 02-03, which as you correctly deducted I'm born pre April 1979. 

So my next question would logically be "is there a link to see the actual years you've contributed" that I'm just missing? Or should these simply be displayed alongside the gap years and I've got a glitch in my system?

molerat

If you go into your NI record rather than your pension forecast it should give the full view.

Brit_in_Cyprus

molerat said:

If you go into your NI record rather than your pension forecast it should give the full view.

That worked a treat. It's exactly what was suggested. 
3 years NI credits, 99/00 from employment, and 02/03 a mix of employment and 40 weeks self employed. 

Going back to my original question of CF83 eligibility for Class 2 voluntary contributions, do you think this now changes anything in my favour?

QrizB

Brit_in_Cyprus said:

Going back to my original question of CF83 eligibility for Class 2 voluntary contributions, do you think this now changes anything in my favour?

From what others have said, you'll need to convince HMRC that you were working or seeking work immediately prior to emigrating, and they'll also want to know your employment history ever since.
Your NI record shows a part-filled year for 03-04, so that should help support your claim to have been working then.