Enterprise Rental Car trying to charge for citation AFTER I returned the vehicle

Bazarius

The “arrived” and “driving” times on GPS trackers like Google Timeline etc are usually delayed by a couple of minutes .  It doesn’t actually register as being stopped unless it’s sure that it has rather than being stuck in traffic etc . 

How far away is the location on the “citation” ? 

The_Slithy_Tove

vaderag said:

They sent details of the citation, but not the actual citation:

- Issuing Agency: Premier Parking Enforcement Ltd (B18 6EA)
- Issuing Time 11:53
- Violation Type: PARKING

What's frustrating is that I have GPS data showing me as being out of the store by 11.50, but they seem to have rounded up the "Contract Close Dte/Time" to 12:00 (which I believe is when the branch closes on a Saturday)

But the closing time is not in line with when the actual end of the rental was since I was only in the branch from 11:43-11:50 so would have closed the rental during that period - I have asked them to corroborate this with their CCTV and systems

The whole thing was a shambles as they said I would receive an email on closure which I never did and had to call to confirm - really feels like they try this on regularly

And it's all doubly complex as I don't have any visibility on the actual citation, any evidence of the infraction, and I'm having to argue through a third party that just wants to keep that £35 admin fee

Were you/was the car in the vicinity of B18 6EA prior to dropping it back at Enterprise? What is at that postcode where there may be private parking enforcement? I see there's an Enterprise branch not very far away. Is that where the car was dropped off?

You need to see the actual parking notice from PPE to determine exactly where they are saying the car was, and the exact times. Issuing time may not be the same as the end of the alleged parking period.

vaderag

The_Slithy_Tove said:

Were you/was the car in the vicinity of B18 6EA prior to dropping it back at Enterprise? What is at that postcode where there may be private parking enforcement? I see there's an Enterprise branch not very far away. Is that where the car was dropped off?

You need to see the actual parking notice from PPE to determine exactly where they are saying the car was, and the exact times. Issuing time may not be the same as the end of the alleged parking period.

To the best of my knowledge, no I was not in that vicinity - I filled up at an Esso and then returned the vehicle to Enterprise. The issuance is after I returned the car

But as you say - I am flying blind - I haven't seen the supposed fine, only the details Enterprise have provided (which are above)

Half_way

The reasons for thinking this was a US case was due to the language used, people have asked for help from outside of UK before and as its a UK based case then it raises suspicions that the person at enterprise who is dealing with this has not got a clue.

First things first, if this relates to a private parking ticket - that is not issued by the council then this is not a fine, and you are not dealing with a fine

Was the vehicle parked and left in an area agreed by or instructed by enterprise?

where was the vehicle left? ( Google maps link would help here)

And from there we may be able to see if this is a private parking charge notice (abbreviated to PCN)  or a council issued Penalty charge notice (abbreviated to PCN)

If its a private parking charge notice, then its important not to call it a fine or a penalty, even more so if you are dealing with a third party such as a hire company, if unsure call it a parking ticket

Coupon-mad

You don't have a fine, just an invoice coming from Premier Parking Enforcement Ltd, same as all the threads on this forum.

If Enterprise have given your name & address to  Premier Parking Enforcement then just wait for the NTH to arrive in your name.

vaderag

Coupon-mad said:

You don't have a fine, just an invoice coming from Premier Parking Enforcement Ltd, same as all the threads on this forum.

If Enterprise have given your name & address to  Premier Parking Enforcement then just wait for the NTH to arrive in your name.

Thanks - that is currently my situation I think, but equally having back and forth with Enterprise as I still don't believe this fine can apply to me - they have, in writing, confirmed that the time of the "invoice" is AFTER my return of the vehicle... so the store could have done anything with the vehicle in the following minutes

Additionally, it looks like they have been incredibly lax in forwarding any correspondence or details - the rental was in November and from what I can pick up from our correspondence it appears that have waited until a final notice / solicitor letter (early feb) before they event contacted me. 

Overall, I don't think that any of this is in any way related to me - but right now I'm sitting on a £35 admin fee from Enterprise that they won't give me back, and a potential larger notice coming through at some undisclosed point in the future which I'm going to have to argue with despite it being after my rental...

Fruitcake

It is not a fine. Use of that term may come back to bight you on the bum. 

Do you know if Enterprise paid the charge on your behalf (even though they shouldn't)?

Either way, you should put the admin fee in dispute with your card provider. If Enterprise pay the fee and try to bill you, then you should put that in dispute as well. If they haven't already paid it, you should instruct them not to, and warn them you retain the right to issue a court claim against them if they do.

Unless and until they transfer liability to you by passing the hirer's details to the PPC, they remain liable for the charge, and any admin costs they incur as a result of their inability to follow the law, the PoFA 2012 that has been around for over twelve years, is their problem not yours.
They are also BVRLA members, a hire/lease company trade association who has told it's members not to pay these charges but to pass the hirer's details to the PPC.

Do you have a smart 'phone with location tracking enabled? Interrogating the history may show when and where you were on the material date.

I suggest you use the CEOemail finder website and complain to the UK CEO of Enterprise, and complain to your MP as well.

BikingBud

vaderag said:

Coupon-mad said:

You don't have a fine, just an invoice coming from Premier Parking Enforcement Ltd, same as all the threads on this forum.

If Enterprise have given your name & address to  Premier Parking Enforcement then just wait for the NTH to arrive in your name.

Thanks - that is currently my situation I think, but equally having back and forth with Enterprise as I still don't believe this fine can apply to me - they have, in writing, confirmed that the time of the "invoice" is AFTER my return of the vehicle... so the store could have done anything with the vehicle in the following minutes

Additionally, it looks like they have been incredibly lax in forwarding any correspondence or details - the rental was in November and from what I can pick up from our correspondence it appears that have waited until a final notice / solicitor letter (early feb) before they event contacted me. 

Overall, I don't think that any of this is in any way related to me - but right now I'm sitting on a £35 admin fee from Enterprise that they won't give me back, and a potential larger notice coming through at some undisclosed point in the future which I'm going to have to argue with despite it being after my rental...

Sorry if I am missing something but the bit in bold?

If you have confirmation in writing from the hire company that the allegation of parking and subsequent invoice occurred after you had returned the vehicle and it had been accepted by the hire company then surely there is nothing to see here, whichever way they may try to dress it up.

Or have they confirmed the time of the parking incident, which you feel was after they timed you as checking the vehicle back in but they rounded to a later time?

If you don't have google tracks I would be drawing up the timeline from payment of fuel including distance and estimation of time to travel, parking and checking of vehicle and walking into the office and see how that stacks up against their rounding time. Did the hire company give you a return receipt or refund of deposit via card? See what time your card provider has logged for this transaction, banking has one of the most stringent timekeeping reqs, it might be back office work later but worth a try.

Ask for a DSAR request indicating times of records and logged times - think Harold Shipman, incorrect logging time, 10:05  with date/time of actual system record of 09:53.

vaderag

Sorry if I am missing something but the bit in bold?

If you have confirmation in writing from the hire company that the allegation of parking and subsequent invoice occurred after you had returned the vehicle and it had been accepted by the hire company then surely there is nothing to see here, whichever way they may try to dress it up.

Or have they confirmed the time of the parking incident, which you feel was after they timed you as checking the vehicle back in but they rounded to a later time?

If you don't have google tracks I would be drawing up the timeline from payment of fuel including distance and estimation of time to travel, parking and checking of vehicle and walking into the office and see how that stacks up against their rounding time. Did the hire company give you a return receipt or refund of deposit via card? See what time your card provider has logged for this transaction, banking has one of the most stringent timekeeping reqs, it might be back office work later but worth a try.

Ask for a DSAR request indicating times of records and logged times - think Harold Shipman, incorrect logging time, 10:05  with date/time of actual system record of 09:53.

So, I totally agree with the "nothing to see here", but I'm dealing with Enterprise citations team, who are in turn dealing with the branch and we're having a big back and forth with them refusing to budge on things because the branch says it's my issue. Of course, the facts seem to say otherwise; they have confirmed that the time of return was "between 11.45 and 11.50" (I had gone the path of trying to track down the time from the credit cards but unfortunately they were unable to track this down to a time and said I needed the branch receipts) The time listed on their citation notice (note not the actual citation as I have not yet seen this) is 11.54 So at this point based on their own information it seems cut and dry that I was not in command of the vehicle at the time of the supposed infraction All that said I have not seen the actual "citation" they are claiming so I am still not in full view of the facts and piecing together a story based on their information. My personal belief at this stage is that the branch is in cahoots with the private issuer, and that this is some kind of racket; the length of time for them to pass information seems timed to maximise any potential fine, the blatent misrepresentation of information, the fact they passed this on anyway despite acknowledging the timing doesnt match, it all just seems underhand and dodgy... and yet, it seems the only people who have any way to close this is the branch that I believe are in on the scam

h2g2

The admin fee of only £35 makes going to court for it a bit overkill.

I would suggest issuing a formal complaint to the Enterprise branch outlining that they have charged you a £35 for handling a fine or invoice from a private parking company, it is unclear from their communications which they believe it is, despite the fact that the fine or invoice was issued after the end of the rental period.

Therefore you cannot be liable for either the charge, nor any associated administration fee, and that any further payments to Enterprise about this fine or charge are not authorised.

Furthermore, you deny using the car in any way that would make you liable for any fine or parking charge, and if anyone does believe the car was used this way during the rental period, you intend to contest it fully.

Tell them they can resolve your complaint by either:

- Refunding the £35 and accepting liability for the fine or invoice (which was, in any case, issued while the car was under their control), OR
- Exercise their right to discharge liability to the hirer, and forward to you evidence that the fine or invoice was issued during the rental period as well as proof that it really exists
- Clearly explain what part of the hire agreement allows them to issue admin charges for events occurring after the hire period.

Tell them that the refusal of the branch and the citations team to work together is not your concern, but you will not allow yourself to be prejudiced because of any issues within the company.

If they do not do any of things, and try to keep the £35 admin fee while not handling the fine or invoice either way, you will escalate the complaint to BVRLA.

If they don't do anything you can escalate and hopefully at the BVRLA common sense will prevail and they will make Enterprise pay you back.