Landlord / Managing Agents Introduced a Private Parking Firm in Block of Flats

Bobb12345

h2g2 said:

Coupon-mad said:

One might be @h2g2 (trying to recall!).

One of them is me, yes! My thread is here.

I have the slight advantage of living at the place before parking controls were implemented, which means I have records that I raised concerns before ticketing started. Looking back over this thread, it looks like you are in a similar situation.

One angle of attack might be to raise an objection with the parking company themselves, showing them your lease and deed, and asserting that you are the owner & occupier of your parking space and that you do not consent to them issuing parking charges on your land, and further that you do not consent to them offering a contract to park on your land.

When I did this they opted my space out (which they have generally respected so far) but were clear it was a courtesy, and said they did have the legal right to enforce charges on me and my space.

If that happens it might be worth escalating to their trade association (BPA or IPC), which won't get you anywhere but their response may contain some rope to hang them with later.

After that you can raise a concern with the DLVA saying that you are the landowner, but someone else has contracted a PPC to "manage" your land without your consent. Ask them to withhold keeper details for charges on that land unless they can prove they have consent from the landowner to operate.

Also ask them to investigate a breach of Protection of Freedoms Act Schedule 4, and a breach of the shared code of conduct that forms part of the KADOE contract. If you took the step of complaining to the IPC / BPA you can also raise that you complained to them as well and that they refused to enforce a substantial part of the code of conduct and endorsed their member breaching the law as well.

If all else fails, I went to Constestor Legal, and paid £2500 (which we anticipate winning back) to use the court system to kick them out. Progress is on its way.

h2g2 said:

Coupon-mad said:

One might be @h2g2 (trying to recall!).

One of them is me, yes! My thread is here.

I have the slight advantage of living at the place before parking controls were implemented, which means I have records that I raised concerns before ticketing started. Looking back over this thread, it looks like you are in a similar situation.

One angle of attack might be to raise an objection with the parking company themselves, showing them your lease and deed, and asserting that you are the owner & occupier of your parking space and that you do not consent to them issuing parking charges on your land, and further that you do not consent to them offering a contract to park on your land.

When I did this they opted my space out (which they have generally respected so far) but were clear it was a courtesy, and said they did have the legal right to enforce charges on me and my space.

If that happens it might be worth escalating to their trade association (BPA or IPC), which won't get you anywhere but their response may contain some rope to hang them with later.

After that you can raise a concern with the DLVA saying that you are the landowner, but someone else has contracted a PPC to "manage" your land without your consent. Ask them to withhold keeper details for charges on that land unless they can prove they have consent from the landowner to operate.

Also ask them to investigate a breach of Protection of Freedoms Act Schedule 4, and a breach of the shared code of conduct that forms part of the KADOE contract. If you took the step of complaining to the IPC / BPA you can also raise that you complained to them as well and that they refused to enforce a substantial part of the code of conduct and endorsed their member breaching the law as well.

If all else fails, I went to Constestor Legal, and paid £2500 (which we anticipate winning back) to use the court system to kick them out. Progress is on its way.

I really appreciate you getting back to me, I suppose I could try and contact the PPC and ask them to 'opt out' my space. I'll give that a shot. 

I still need the info on the outcome of the vote that happened, once I have that info I'll see where to go from there, but I don't have the time or the money for an extended legal fight, so might have to just accept it for the moment. 

Castle

AGM meetings would had to have been minuted which would also include listing the persons in attendance.

Bobb12345

Castle said:

AGM meetings would had to have been minuted which would also include listing the persons in attendance.

I have sent an email to the Property Management Company asking them to ask the Building Directors as to how people in the flats (leaseholders / tenants) were polled. Was there a letter, or was it an online meeting? How many attended, how many said yes, how many said no, how many didn't reply?

I have a suspicion that because it was 8 years ago, the Building Directors will probably say they can't remember, and unfortunately, I can't ask them directly because last time we had a conversation (at the Leaseholder AGM) they started screaming at me and told me I was 'quoting the magna carter'. I was asking about parking. 

Anyways, let's see what happens. I'll advise when I get any updates.

1505grandad

Even the latest unregulated CoP (soon to be replaced by a proper regulated PPCoP by the Government) recognise/acknowledge  this scam:-

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW Redesigned Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf

THE SINGLE CODE OF PRACTICE

14

Relationship with landowner 

NOTE 3: Particular care is needed to establish appropriate contractual terms, including the application of parking terms and conditions, in respect of controlled land where leaseholders may have rights that cannot be qualified or overruled e.g. by imposing a requirement on the resident of an apartment block to display a permit to park in contravention of their rights under their lease, or to ensure that free parking periods do not breach planning consents.

h2g2

Bobb12345 said:

Castle said:

AGM meetings would had to have been minuted which would also include listing the persons in attendance.

I have sent an email to the Property Management Company asking them to ask the Building Directors as to how people in the flats (leaseholders / tenants) were polled. Was there a letter, or was it an online meeting? How many attended, how many said yes, how many said no, how many didn't reply?

I have a suspicion that because it was 8 years ago, the Building Directors will probably say they can't remember, and unfortunately, I can't ask them directly because last time we had a conversation (at the Leaseholder AGM) they started screaming at me and told me I was 'quoting the magna carter'. I was asking about parking. 

Anyways, let's see what happens. I'll advise when I get any updates.

Who are the building directors anyway? Are they just leaseholders or do they work for an actual property management company?

It might be helpful to write a formal letter, making the position clear, and perhaps asking that they clarify what "quoting the magna carta" means? Keep it calm; keep it civil. Doing so invites them to respond in the same manner.

You can keep it fairly brief. Ask them:

- Which part of the lease they rely on which allows them to charge leaseholders parking on their demised parking space? The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 means that this can only be done via formal arrangement with the owner or occupier of the parking space in question, which is the leaseholder.

- If the lease has been varied in accordance with the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, there must be a record of such a variation. Can they please share this record and what, exactly, the variation was?

- What does [name] mean when they say "quoting the magna carta"? When this matter was raised in an AGM meeting this was given as the reply.

It should at least clarify the position.

If they are a formal property management company and part of a trade association / ombudsman scheme, you could also issue a formal complaint over the behaviour of whoever screamed at you.

Fruitcake

If/when you contact the PPC, don't ask them; tell them you have opted out with immediate effect. Any further interference with your existing unfettered rights to use your demised space may result in legal action being taken against them and the principal who engaged them. 

Do contact the DVLA, and complain to your MP.

If you haven't already done so, please also sign the petition below.


Bring the Parking Code of Practice into law, as per the 2019 Act of Parliament. - Petitions

Bobb12345

h2g2 said:

Bobb12345 said:

Castle said:

AGM meetings would had to have been minuted which would also include listing the persons in attendance.

I have sent an email to the Property Management Company asking them to ask the Building Directors as to how people in the flats (leaseholders / tenants) were polled. Was there a letter, or was it an online meeting? How many attended, how many said yes, how many said no, how many didn't reply?

I have a suspicion that because it was 8 years ago, the Building Directors will probably say they can't remember, and unfortunately, I can't ask them directly because last time we had a conversation (at the Leaseholder AGM) they started screaming at me and told me I was 'quoting the magna carter'. I was asking about parking. 

Anyways, let's see what happens. I'll advise when I get any updates.

Who are the building directors anyway? Are they just leaseholders or do they work for an actual property management company?

It might be helpful to write a formal letter, making the position clear, and perhaps asking that they clarify what "quoting the magna carta" means? Keep it calm; keep it civil. Doing so invites them to respond in the same manner.

You can keep it fairly brief. Ask them:

- Which part of the lease they rely on which allows them to charge leaseholders parking on their demised parking space? The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 means that this can only be done via formal arrangement with the owner or occupier of the parking space in question, which is the leaseholder.

- If the lease has been varied in accordance with the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, there must be a record of such a variation. Can they please share this record and what, exactly, the variation was?

- What does [name] mean when they say "quoting the magna carta"? When this matter was raised in an AGM meeting this was given as the reply.

It should at least clarify the position.

If they are a formal property management company and part of a trade association / ombudsman scheme, you could also issue a formal complaint over the behaviour of whoever screamed at you.

The Building Directors, are people who liaise with the Property Management Company on behalf of the Leaseholders, so they are effectively Leaseholder, like me. I think they are retired. if I was retired, I would put myself forward but I just don't have time now. 

I have already written a formal email to the Property Management Company asking about how the survey of Leaseholders was allegedly carried out 8 years ago. I can't email the Building Directors because they will just ignore the email. They have said already in an email that they won't engage in the parking subject further. That's fishy if you ask me, surely they would want to prove they had followed due process? That's also the reason I emailed the Property Management Company. 

No-one at the Property Management Company has screamed at me, just the Building Directors acting unprofessionally during the Annual General Meeting Teams call. 

I'll give it another week with the Property Management Company and see if I get a reply, then I'll follow it up, and maybe try and clarify what exactly is needed. If I have to take it to a legal fight though, I won't be able to because I don't have the funds or time to do so, and sadly I can't see the parking regs change based on information I have supplied. 

Bobb12345

Fruitcake said:

If/when you contact the PPC, don't ask them; tell them you have opted out with immediate effect. Any further interference with your existing unfettered rights to use your demised space may result in legal action being taken against them and the principal who engaged them. 

Do contact the DVLA, and complain to your MP.

If you haven't already done so, please also sign the petition below.


Bring the Parking Code of Practice into law, as per the 2019 Act of Parliament. - Petitions

This is something I will have time to do. I'm still waiting on confirmation on how leaseholders were asked if they wanted a Private Parking Company. It's still unclear, although I suspect it wasn't done correctly. I'll contact my MP and will contact DVLA as well. Many thanks.