First time buyer status

ahfat41

Am reading conflicting information. Husband recently died and his will created a trust. He left 50% of his share to the adult children and a life interest to me. My son is looking to buy a flat, will he still considered a first time buyer if I add his name as trustee and beneficiary on the title deed. I am not sure whether to get a solicitor to update the register now or wait till he bought his flat. Thanks

Keep_pedalling

This is an immediate post death interest trust and legal ownership of husband’s share is now owned by the trust and you are the beneficial owner. This does not impact his FTB status and he wont have to pay additional SDLT either.

It is not strictly necessary to alter the LR at this stage, but the trust does need to be registered with HMRC within two years of your husband’s death.

ahfat41

Thank you. I am aware of the 2 yrs trust registration. I thought if I register them as trustees now, thinking ahead and if I need to go into a care home as they are already registered as trustees it will save time if there is a need to sell the house to fund care fees. Does that make sense? Options 1 is to get probate on husband death although there is no need. I have managed to closed all his account and received the funds. Alter the register and the adult children name as trustees.
Option 2 do nothing let daughter deals with everything on my death. Double probate if required. How will she account of husband  NRB if no probate, husband gifted £9000 a yr to our son and had £50,000 savings. I can always leave a file and info regarding husband assets, I will be consulting a solicitor for some advice when I am less stressed and have a proper conversation with them. Thank you very much I do appreciate your advice. Sometimes it is nice to get another opinion.

poseidon1

ahfat41 said:

Thank you. I am aware of the 2 yrs trust registration. I thought if I register them as trustees now, thinking ahead and if I need to go into a care home as they are already registered as trustees it will save time if there is a need to sell the house to fund care fees. Does that make sense? Options 1 is to get probate on husband death although there is no need. I have managed to closed all his account and received the funds. Alter the register and the adult children name as trustees.
Option 2 do nothing let daughter deals with everything on my death. Double probate if required. How will she account of husband  NRB if no probate, husband gifted £9000 a yr to our son and had £50,000 savings. I can always leave a file and info regarding husband assets, I will be consulting a solicitor for some advice when I am less stressed and have a proper conversation with them. Thank you very much I do appreciate your advice. Sometimes it is nice to get another opinion.

Anyone inspecting the LR should be able to see that half of the property is subject to trust. This can be achieved via a Form A restriction - see explanatory link below

https://www.jonathanlea.net/blog/how-to-register-a-declaration-of-trust-at-the-land-registry/#:~:text=In registered land the way,that proprietor was a trustee

Your children's status as trustees in this circumstance does not in any way affect their FTB position, legal ownership as trustee does not equate to beneficial ownership for FTB purposes since they do not acquire a beneficial interest in the family home until after your death, so no need to delay the Form A restriction process until after your son acquires his flat. A competent solicitor will confirm this.

Incidentally and as you pointed out , your children  may never acquire beneficial entitlement to the house if you ultimately  go into a care home and house sold as a result.

Finally I cannot see how your children's trusteeship and your position as ongoing trust beneficiary can be formally recognised at this point without your husband's will being probated.
Additionally  as you point out, your husband gifting well in excess of his £3,000 annual exemption, does impact on his NRB at death, and the percentage thereof ultimately transferable to your estate on your eventual death. I can't see your Option 2 being a viable course of action, unless you want to burden your daughter with unnecessary executor complexity on your eventual death. 

ahfat41

Thank you very much for taking time to clarify and explain my options. I will take option one, will ask the solicitor to apply to alter the register and include their name as trustees and at the same time apply for probate for late husband. With probate I will only ask help to fill the forms, I will not be rushing to take action now but will look into later in the year. 

ahfat41

I intend to use this firm as the  price is competitive but cannot find him on the register.
https://www.probateandestates.co.uk/

poseidon1

ahfat41 said:

I intend to use this firm as the  price is competitive but cannot find him on the register.
https://www.probateandestates.co.uk/

It is a Will Writing 'firm'. 

Although the principal of the firm indicates he used to work as a trust and probate manager for a London firm of solicitors, that does not of itself make him legally qualified.  Indeed he makes no reference at all to any formal qualifications in his bio. I would have expected at least an ILEX ( legal executive) qualification, even if he could not aspire to full blown STEP membership.

 Also not clear whether this is a one man operation, or there are any other individuals working alongside in the business although he does appears to be operating from his home address. As such there maybe a question of competency in the specific trust matters you require when it comes to handling the Land Registry aspect of things.

Probate for your husband should be simple enough  ( Cash, life time gifts and property now in trust), so  suggest obtaining quotes from a couple of firms of solicitors for obtaining the Grant on your behalf together with lodging the Form A restriction,  to determine if they really are overly expensive compared to what this 'firm' is offering at £60 per hour.    

Using will writing firms based on price alone, can ultimately prove an expensive disappointment.

Savvy_Sue

ahfat41 said:

Thank you. I am aware of the 2 yrs trust registration. I thought if I register them as trustees now, thinking ahead and if I need to go into a care home as they are already registered as trustees it will save time if there is a need to sell the house to fund care fees. Does that make sense? 

What may well save time in that situation is that you have taken out a Lasting Power of Attorney, enabling others to act on your behalf if you've lost capacity or struggle to get to banks, solicitors etc. You may well have done so, but just checking!

ahfat41

Yes I have. Thanks

RAS

There is no reason that you cannot obtain probate yourself, perhaps with a little help from your children. 

After all you have all the documents relating to your husband's gifting, so have the information required to fill in the forms.

And you'll find folk here very helpful.

If you need help with something more, you can formulate the queries and pay a probate solicitor for an hour's advice.

ahfat41

Yes I do have all the informations regarding his finances to fill the form. I only get stuck when to fill the part relating to property in trust. The house is approx 300k, so shall I put 175k share. Not condiment to do it myself and the adult children are not interested. As far as they are concerned pay a solicitor to do it. It’s £318 inc vat an hr.