Paying care home costs

NedS

Hoping for some advice for a couple I'm trying to help for a family friend.

They are a married couple and the main asset is the family home held jointly as tenants in common.

The husband is in a care home paid for by the LA. They receive Section 117 aftercare having previously received treatment under Section 3 of the Mental Health Act. This means their assets are disregarded indefinitely and they do not pay for their care.

The wife is currently living at home, but approaching the point of needing residential care. The wife has a LA funded care package at home as they have cash assets below the threshold.

What happens when the wife needs residential care? As the property is held tenants in common, they are unable to sell their share of the property to realise their capital to pay for care home costs as long as their husband is alive. The husband wants to return home (hence will not sell) although that is very unlikely to ever happen.

Will the property be disregarded as long as the husband is alive, or would the LA pay for care home fees for the wife and expect this to be repaid once the house can be sold? I have no idea how all this stuff works.

All of the guidance I have read only states the property would be disregarded if the husband (spouse) were living there, which they currently are not, and it does not appear to fall under any of the listed conditions for a disregard.

I'm reading the AgeUK factsheet, and looking at the section on forced sale and what value they could reasonably be expected to achieve where one tenant in common does not wish to sell their half:

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/siteassets/documents/factsheets/fs38_property_and_paying_for_residential_care_fcs.pdf

Keep_pedalling

You say he wants to return home, is this even possible? If he is in care on a permanent basis then her share of the house will not be disregarded, although the LA may go down the deferred payment route and put a charge on the house. 


Have they put financial LPAs in place?

HillStreetBlues

Is there a will in place?

NedS

Yes, it is unrealistic that he will return home. But he does not want to sell as he wants to return home, even if that is unrealistic and is not in his best interests.

If the house is not disregarded, and the wife is unable to sell without husband's agreement, how are the care costs paid if she needs to go into a care home? Are they looking at a forced sale court order?

HillStreetBlues said:

Is there a will in place?

Yes, there wills in place, but they are not relevant whilst both parties are alive?

Keep_pedalling

NedS said:

Yes, it is unrealistic that he will return home. But he does not want to sell as he wants to return home, even if that is unrealistic and is not in his best interests.

If the house is not disregarded, and the wife is unable to sell without husband's agreement, how are the care costs paid if she needs to go into a care home? Are they looking at a forced sale court order?

What is more likely to happen is that the LA will defer payment and put a charge on the house.

This could go on for years so the other issue to consider is the property going to remain unoccupied for an indefinite period which is not in either of their best interests.

HillStreetBlues said:

Is there a will in place?

Yes, there wills in place, but they are not relevant whilst both parties are alive?

More importantly does anyone one have LPA for them both?

HillStreetBlues

NedS said:

Yes, it is unrealistic that he will return home. But he does not want to sell as he wants to return home, even if that is unrealistic and is not in his best interests.

If the house is not disregarded, and the wife is unable to sell without husband's agreement, how are the care costs paid if she needs to go into a care home? Are they looking at a forced sale court order?

HillStreetBlues said:

Is there a will in place?

Yes, there wills in place, but they are not relevant whilst both parties are alive?

Sorry should have expanded my post about the will. I was wondering if they had taken advice on who to leave their each share of the house too.
I would have thought a charge is more likely than a forced sale unless it's totally clear the husband can never return.

NedS

Keep_pedalling said:

NedS said:

Yes, it is unrealistic that he will return home. But he does not want to sell as he wants to return home, even if that is unrealistic and is not in his best interests.

If the house is not disregarded, and the wife is unable to sell without husband's agreement, how are the care costs paid if she needs to go into a care home? Are they looking at a forced sale court order?

What is more likely to happen is that the LA will defer payment and put a charge on the house.

This could go on for years so the other issue to consider is the property going to remain unoccupied for an indefinite period which is not in either of their best interests.

HillStreetBlues said:

Is there a will in place?

Yes, there wills in place, but they are not relevant whilst both parties are alive?

More importantly does anyone one have LPA for them both?

Yes, LPA's are in place.

NedS

HillStreetBlues said:

NedS said:

Yes, it is unrealistic that he will return home. But he does not want to sell as he wants to return home, even if that is unrealistic and is not in his best interests.

If the house is not disregarded, and the wife is unable to sell without husband's agreement, how are the care costs paid if she needs to go into a care home? Are they looking at a forced sale court order?

HillStreetBlues said:

Is there a will in place?

Yes, there wills in place, but they are not relevant whilst both parties are alive?

Sorry should have expanded my post about the will. I was wondering if they had taken advice on who to leave their each share of the house too.
I would have thought a charge is more likely than a forced sale unless it's totally clear the husband can never return.

The husband has been found to lack capacity, and placed in a care home under a DOLS (Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards). They are not happy there and say they want to return home. The issue is that they can request a review at any time, and a new capacity assessment would have to be conducted under the Care Act, and on that occasion they could be found to have capacity - unlikely, but possible. If they were found to have capacity, they would then be free to choose to return home. Given that (however unlikely) possibility and their clear expression of wish to return home, I do not see how the attorney can act in their best interests to sell their home (that effectively seals their fate as there is no home to return to)

HillStreetBlues

NedS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

NedS said:

Yes, it is unrealistic that he will return home. But he does not want to sell as he wants to return home, even if that is unrealistic and is not in his best interests.

If the house is not disregarded, and the wife is unable to sell without husband's agreement, how are the care costs paid if she needs to go into a care home? Are they looking at a forced sale court order?

HillStreetBlues said:

Is there a will in place?

Yes, there wills in place, but they are not relevant whilst both parties are alive?

Sorry should have expanded my post about the will. I was wondering if they had taken advice on who to leave their each share of the house too.
I would have thought a charge is more likely than a forced sale unless it's totally clear the husband can never return.

The husband has been found to lack capacity, and placed in a care home under a DOLS (Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards). They are not happy there and say they want to return home. The issue is that they can request a review at any time, and a new capacity assessment would have to be conducted under the Care Act, and on that occasion they could be found to have capacity - unlikely, but possible. If they were found to have capacity, they would then be free to choose to return home. Given that (however unlikely) possibility and their clear expression of wish to return home, I do not see how the attorney can act in their best interests to sell their home (that effectively seals their fate as there is no home to return to)

I agree with your view