The co-operative bank Membership Cashback Credit Card

barnehurst

hgt said:

I've had one of these for a while.... very very old school but works. The online services are poor, and you have to wait an age to get your cashback paid but it does do what it says on the tin. As far as I'm aware this is the best cashback rate for a non-Amex fee-free card. 

Lloyds platinum credit card also gives 0.5pc cashback on virtually everything in UK but is useless abroad because of fees

EarthBoy

barnehurst said:

hgt said:

I've had one of these for a while.... very very old school but works. The online services are poor, and you have to wait an age to get your cashback paid but it does do what it says on the tin. As far as I'm aware this is the best cashback rate for a non-Amex fee-free card. 

Lloyds platinum credit card also gives 0.5pc cashback on virtually everything in UK but is useless abroad because of fees

No it doesn't.  There's a Lloyds Cashback Credit Card, which gives you 0.25% cashback. The Platinum card doesn't give you anything, unless there was an old cashback card which hasn't been available for years. 

https://www.lloydsbank.com/credit-cards/cashback.html

ircE

WillPS said:

This card yields vouchers which have to be redeemed at the Co-op, so arguably also not cashback (at least in the true sense).

@WillPS The cashback can be paid as money into your bank account for you to spend where you wish.

WillPS

ircE said:

WillPS said:

This card yields vouchers which have to be redeemed at the Co-op, so arguably also not cashback (at least in the true sense).

@WillPS The cashback can be paid as money into your bank account for you to spend where you wish.

Thanks for clarifying that, it's entirely weird that they have to go through The Co-op Group at all in that case. I could see it made sense when they were under the same ownership and the group sent out dividends, but neither is true.

Olenna

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

EarthBoy said:

35har1old said:

hgt said:

I've had one of these for a while.... very very old school but works. The online services are poor, and you have to wait an age to get your cashback paid but it does do what it says on the tin. As far as I'm aware this is the best cashback rate for a non-Amex fee-free card. 

Barclaycard 0,5% 

Only 0.25% according to the Barclays website. 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/credit-cards/reward-cards/barclays-rewards/

The Barclaycard Avios card pays 1 pt per £, which can convert automatically to Nectar at 1:1 (for the time being, anyway), giving an effective reward of 0.5% (when redeemed at face value at Sainsburys [inc fuel] or Argos).

Avios points buying Nectar points swapping for Sainsburys / Argos store credit -  not cashback.

Requiring the Avios > Nectar > Shopping link stays in force and hoping the conversion rate doesn't get devalued again and again by Avios, Nectar or Sainsburys / Argos.

On the plus side, you get cheap drinks at Caffè Nero with Nectar or flights from London with BA.

The words you quoted were "effective reward", not cashback.

This card yields vouchers which have to be redeemed at the Co-op, so arguably also not cashback (at least in the true sense). It also relies on a partnership enduring between two companies which have no shared ownership between them.

The "effective reward" of these points was 0.67% until fairly recently when a participant of the chain devalued - which they can do (or exit entirely) with very little notice.

Unless it's changed, you could swap the Co-op vouchers instore or get the value paid into your bank account so arguably cashback (or very close to it).

WillPS

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

EarthBoy said:

35har1old said:

hgt said:

I've had one of these for a while.... very very old school but works. The online services are poor, and you have to wait an age to get your cashback paid but it does do what it says on the tin. As far as I'm aware this is the best cashback rate for a non-Amex fee-free card. 

Barclaycard 0,5% 

Only 0.25% according to the Barclays website. 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/credit-cards/reward-cards/barclays-rewards/

The Barclaycard Avios card pays 1 pt per £, which can convert automatically to Nectar at 1:1 (for the time being, anyway), giving an effective reward of 0.5% (when redeemed at face value at Sainsburys [inc fuel] or Argos).

Avios points buying Nectar points swapping for Sainsburys / Argos store credit -  not cashback.

Requiring the Avios > Nectar > Shopping link stays in force and hoping the conversion rate doesn't get devalued again and again by Avios, Nectar or Sainsburys / Argos.

On the plus side, you get cheap drinks at Caffè Nero with Nectar or flights from London with BA.

The words you quoted were "effective reward", not cashback.

This card yields vouchers which have to be redeemed at the Co-op, so arguably also not cashback (at least in the true sense). It also relies on a partnership enduring between two companies which have no shared ownership between them.

The "effective reward" of these points was 0.67% until fairly recently when a participant of the chain devalued - which they can do (or exit entirely) with very little notice.

You always have the option to change your strategy at that point and/or stop using the card though; there are all sorts of scenarios you might need to do this - not least better products turning up. Unlike other cards Barclaycard pays out the Avios at the start of each month and Avios can be set autoconvert on a Monday. Even the latest changes, which clearly represented the absolute minimum amount of notice Avios could have possibly given, there was still time for accrued spend to autoconvert in.

Any cashback card could similarly change its earning rate or remove it entirely (this card has been through exactly that, at least twice). Many of them could also make you wait until card anniversaries and such to get whatever you've already earned, even in that case. There's little point crystal ball gazing.

Olenna

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

EarthBoy said:

35har1old said:

hgt said:

I've had one of these for a while.... very very old school but works. The online services are poor, and you have to wait an age to get your cashback paid but it does do what it says on the tin. As far as I'm aware this is the best cashback rate for a non-Amex fee-free card. 

Barclaycard 0,5% 

Only 0.25% according to the Barclays website. 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/credit-cards/reward-cards/barclays-rewards/

The Barclaycard Avios card pays 1 pt per £, which can convert automatically to Nectar at 1:1 (for the time being, anyway), giving an effective reward of 0.5% (when redeemed at face value at Sainsburys [inc fuel] or Argos).

Avios points buying Nectar points swapping for Sainsburys / Argos store credit -  not cashback.

Requiring the Avios > Nectar > Shopping link stays in force and hoping the conversion rate doesn't get devalued again and again by Avios, Nectar or Sainsburys / Argos.

On the plus side, you get cheap drinks at Caffè Nero with Nectar or flights from London with BA.

The words you quoted were "effective reward", not cashback.

This card yields vouchers which have to be redeemed at the Co-op, so arguably also not cashback (at least in the true sense). It also relies on a partnership enduring between two companies which have no shared ownership between them.

The "effective reward" of these points was 0.67% until fairly recently when a participant of the chain devalued - which they can do (or exit entirely) with very little notice.

You always have the option to change your strategy at that point and/or stop using the card though; there are all sorts of scenarios you might need to do this - not least better products turning up. Unlike other cards Barclaycard pays out the Avios at the start of each month and Avios can be set autoconvert on a Monday. Even the latest changes, which clearly represented the absolute minimum amount of notice Avios could have possibly given, there was still time for accrued spend to autoconvert in.

Any cashback card could similarly change its earning rate or remove it entirely (this card has been through exactly that, at least twice). Many of them could also make you wait until card anniversaries and such to get whatever you've already earned, even in that case. There's little point crystal ball gazing.

All very good advice in dealing with any changes in terms of the card issuer Barclaycard, Avios scheme, Nectar scheme or that of the end retailer. 

Obviously, a crystal ball is not required to see limited spendability when compared with actual cashback.

WillPS

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

EarthBoy said:

35har1old said:

hgt said:

I've had one of these for a while.... very very old school but works. The online services are poor, and you have to wait an age to get your cashback paid but it does do what it says on the tin. As far as I'm aware this is the best cashback rate for a non-Amex fee-free card. 

Barclaycard 0,5% 

Only 0.25% according to the Barclays website. 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/credit-cards/reward-cards/barclays-rewards/

The Barclaycard Avios card pays 1 pt per £, which can convert automatically to Nectar at 1:1 (for the time being, anyway), giving an effective reward of 0.5% (when redeemed at face value at Sainsburys [inc fuel] or Argos).

Avios points buying Nectar points swapping for Sainsburys / Argos store credit -  not cashback.

Requiring the Avios > Nectar > Shopping link stays in force and hoping the conversion rate doesn't get devalued again and again by Avios, Nectar or Sainsburys / Argos.

On the plus side, you get cheap drinks at Caffè Nero with Nectar or flights from London with BA.

The words you quoted were "effective reward", not cashback.

This card yields vouchers which have to be redeemed at the Co-op, so arguably also not cashback (at least in the true sense). It also relies on a partnership enduring between two companies which have no shared ownership between them.

The "effective reward" of these points was 0.67% until fairly recently when a participant of the chain devalued - which they can do (or exit entirely) with very little notice.

You always have the option to change your strategy at that point and/or stop using the card though; there are all sorts of scenarios you might need to do this - not least better products turning up. Unlike other cards Barclaycard pays out the Avios at the start of each month and Avios can be set autoconvert on a Monday. Even the latest changes, which clearly represented the absolute minimum amount of notice Avios could have possibly given, there was still time for accrued spend to autoconvert in.

Any cashback card could similarly change its earning rate or remove it entirely (this card has been through exactly that, at least twice). Many of them could also make you wait until card anniversaries and such to get whatever you've already earned, even in that case. There's little point crystal ball gazing.

All very good advice in dealing with any changes in terms of the card issuer Barclaycard, Avios scheme, Nectar scheme or that of the end retailer. 

Obviously, a crystal ball is not required to see limited spendability when compared with actual cashback.

Nectar and Sainsbury's/Argos are two arms of the same company, and the standard burn rate hasn't changed in the 23 years the scheme has existed. In fact, if you include the Sainsbury's Reward Card scheme, which came before Nectar, the burn rate has been static for almost 30 years.

You can be pretty sure that if ever the burn rate were to change they'd give a decent whack of notice as to do otherwise would be a PR disaster for Sainsbury's. It's silly to leave a balance in Nectar points, since they're so easy to spend and the cash saved is more powerful, but it's unnecessarily alarmist to suggest these points are vulnerable to a very sudden rug pull because there is absolutely no precedent of that ever happening (with any major UK supermarket loyalty points scheme). 

The earn rate on every available credit card is fragile and its the job of a proactive consumer to ensure they are aware of any changes both to the product they hold and the wider market which leave them earning less than they otherwise could. Anyone expecting a rewards card will definitely be good forever is going to have a bad time.

So that's both ends of the earn/burn covered off. The only bit left is the agreeably fragile link between Avios and Nectar. In mitigation though:

1. Barclaycard send points to BA on a very regular and predictable schedule - 2nd working day of each month
2. Points can be automatically moved to Nectar on a weekly basis so long as you have at least 400 Avios (i.e. £2 worth). The conversion takes 2 weeks. 
3. Taken in combination, points 1 and 2 mean you are never more than 45 days away from accrued rewards being spendable; which naturally limits exposure.
4. In each previous devaluation, even the most recent one which BA deliberately did as quietly as they could get away with,  sufficient notice was provided to conclude the month's spend and have the points convert to Nectar. If the customer decided to leave it there due to the change, the most they'd have 'trapped' in BA Exec Club is 399 Avios (i.e. less than £2 worth of Nectar).
5. Even in the event of an immediate and complete rug pull, either the customer could effectively forfeit their current month's earnings (a cost of 0.5% of whatever they'd spent so far - unlike to be world ending) or find another use for the Avios. 

It's pretty likely that the Avios -> Nectar conversion route will eventually go away, but in my view the biggest threat to someone considering the card for this purpose is not the fragility of that agreement but rather the fact that the market is improving and better* options are already available.

*in most cases

Olenna

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

Olenna said:

WillPS said:

EarthBoy said:

35har1old said:

hgt said:

I've had one of these for a while.... very very old school but works. The online services are poor, and you have to wait an age to get your cashback paid but it does do what it says on the tin. As far as I'm aware this is the best cashback rate for a non-Amex fee-free card. 

Barclaycard 0,5% 

Only 0.25% according to the Barclays website. 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/credit-cards/reward-cards/barclays-rewards/

The Barclaycard Avios card pays 1 pt per £, which can convert automatically to Nectar at 1:1 (for the time being, anyway), giving an effective reward of 0.5% (when redeemed at face value at Sainsburys [inc fuel] or Argos).

Avios points buying Nectar points swapping for Sainsburys / Argos store credit -  not cashback.

Requiring the Avios > Nectar > Shopping link stays in force and hoping the conversion rate doesn't get devalued again and again by Avios, Nectar or Sainsburys / Argos.

On the plus side, you get cheap drinks at Caffè Nero with Nectar or flights from London with BA.

The words you quoted were "effective reward", not cashback.

This card yields vouchers which have to be redeemed at the Co-op, so arguably also not cashback (at least in the true sense). It also relies on a partnership enduring between two companies which have no shared ownership between them.

The "effective reward" of these points was 0.67% until fairly recently when a participant of the chain devalued - which they can do (or exit entirely) with very little notice.

You always have the option to change your strategy at that point and/or stop using the card though; there are all sorts of scenarios you might need to do this - not least better products turning up. Unlike other cards Barclaycard pays out the Avios at the start of each month and Avios can be set autoconvert on a Monday. Even the latest changes, which clearly represented the absolute minimum amount of notice Avios could have possibly given, there was still time for accrued spend to autoconvert in.

Any cashback card could similarly change its earning rate or remove it entirely (this card has been through exactly that, at least twice). Many of them could also make you wait until card anniversaries and such to get whatever you've already earned, even in that case. There's little point crystal ball gazing.

All very good advice in dealing with any changes in terms of the card issuer Barclaycard, Avios scheme, Nectar scheme or that of the end retailer. 

Obviously, a crystal ball is not required to see limited spendability when compared with actual cashback.

Nectar and Sainsbury's/Argos are two arms of the same company, and the standard burn rate hasn't changed in the 23 years the scheme has existed. In fact, if you include the Sainsbury's Reward Card scheme, which came before Nectar, the burn rate has been static for almost 30 years.

You can be pretty sure that if ever the burn rate were to change they'd give a decent whack of notice as to do otherwise would be a PR disaster for Sainsbury's. It's silly to leave a balance in Nectar points, since they're so easy to spend and the cash saved is more powerful, but it's unnecessarily alarmist to suggest these points are vulnerable to a very sudden rug pull because there is absolutely no precedent of that ever happening (with any major UK supermarket loyalty points scheme). 

The earn rate on every available credit card is fragile and its the job of a proactive consumer to ensure they are aware of any changes both to the product they hold and the wider market which leave them earning less than they otherwise could. Anyone expecting a rewards card will definitely be good forever is going to have a bad time.

So that's both ends of the earn/burn covered off. The only bit left is the agreeably fragile link between Avios and Nectar. In mitigation though:

1. Barclaycard send points to BA on a very regular and predictable schedule - 2nd working day of each month
2. Points can be automatically moved to Nectar on a weekly basis so long as you have at least 400 Avios (i.e. £2 worth). The conversion takes 2 weeks. 
3. Taken in combination, points 1 and 2 mean you are never more than 45 days away from accrued rewards being spendable; which naturally limits exposure.
4. In each previous devaluation, even the most recent one which BA deliberately did as quietly as they could get away with,  sufficient notice was provided to conclude the month's spend and have the points convert to Nectar. If the customer decided to leave it there due to the change, the most they'd have 'trapped' in BA Exec Club is 399 Avios (i.e. less than £2 worth of Nectar).
5. Even in the event of an immediate and complete rug pull, either the customer could effectively forfeit their current month's earnings (a cost of 0.5% of whatever they'd spent so far - unlike to be world ending) or find another use for the Avios. 

It's pretty likely that the Avios -> Nectar conversion route will eventually go away, but in my view the biggest threat to someone considering the card for this purpose is not the fragility of that agreement but rather the fact that the market is improving and better* options are already available.

*in most cases

The effective rate conversion is multiple step process (with inherent risks that aren't always foreseeable) that was recently devaluated by circa 1/3rd with zero input from the card issuer and without any FOS adjudication. A cashback scheme is inherently less risky. Even if the collecting % is reduced or scheme withdrawn; your current cashback is crystallised as GBP which you're able to go to the FOS as an adjudicator.

 

The market is not really improving (beyond Amex) as the interchange fee cap makes bigger rewards uneconomic. 

Anyway, I'm bowing out here as I don't think we see eye to eye as you risk/hassle appetite is obviously higher...

WillPS

Olenna said:

The market is not really improving (beyond Amex) as the interchange fee cap makes bigger rewards uneconomic. 

Amex isn't improving actually, it's been pretty static in terms of earned rewards for a while - after all, they are also impacted by the interchange fee cap on all their cobranded cards.

Santander Edge was the main one I was thinking of, but also Barclaycard, Natwest and Virgin Money have all launched decent products in the last few months - all with far less strings attached.

Olenna said:

Anyway, I'm bowing out here as I don't think we see eye to eye as you risk/hassle appetite is obviously higher...

It isn't actually - I'm pretty conservative about these things. The fact is that the 'stake' is only ever the present month's spend. An average monthly spend of £1k would mean I am "risking" around a fiver, but each month it "pays off" I'm getting £2 more than what I'd have got at 0.3%. 

My biggest month's spend on this card was a month which included both Christmas and our wedding, and the bill for the month was about £4k. If the rug was pulled between those last December card payments and the second working day of January, I'd have "lost" about £26 worth of Nectar points (as this was before the conversion rate nerf, it'd be £20 now), or alternatively put I'd have lost out on the £12 I could have earned "safely" at 0.3%. [Actually, by the time I'd actually got that money if I took the Co-op card it'd have been worth even less because inflation was around 10% at the time!]

All these numbers are both so low that it really doesn't matter ultimately, but also so far apart that it's a no-brainer - if spending these low sums of Nectar points isn't a problem of course.