Do we really need a letter of administration?

MrsBrush

This is perhaps an unusual situation, so just hoping someone can help.

My father-in-law passed away in November, and had very few assets in the UK. He had lived in England for over 50 years, so had a UK state pension and a very small private pension, and a single UK bank acount with a small balance. His estate is made of this very small UK element and his overseas assets, his house. This is in his homeland, in a tiny rural community, and we are in the process of following the necessary steps for that country for my husband to inherit the house. Note that my husband is the only child, so no siblings. That is all under control and from all advice we have been given, the house falls outside UK jursitiction and must be dealt with in FIL's home country. 

DWP have stopped the state pension with no problems.  We have been able to share the translation of the death certificate with the bank, and they have verbally confirmed that because there is such a small remaining balance, they can close the account and release the funds to my husband. We are still waiting for final written confirmation of this, but the balance is in the region of £3500. These funds will ultimately be used to pay some tax that is due in the home country.

The remaining issue is the small private pension. The company has confirmed that the pension has been stopped, and there are no further beneficiary rights, no entitement to ongoing payments for family members etc.  There is a very small balance due to the estate for the pension that was due between the regularly monthly payment to FIL and his date of death. The absolute most it will be is £71, and I am expecting the entitlement to be no more than £45.  

However, the company has been chasing us for a letter of administration, which would be to deal with this single entitlement that is due to the estate.  So far, they have been the most tricky to deal with, as it seems to operate on a very strict set of parameters, with no obvious way of contacting them outside of their online forms.

This leaves me with 2 questions:

1 - Do we really need to go through the process of navigating the probate service, to get a letter of administration, where there is basically nothing to administer and this final payment to distribute to my husband, who is the sole beneficiary?

 2 - What do we need to do to get the pension company to release the final payment without a letter of administraion if we dont need one?

Many thanks in advance,


 

elsien

As it’s such a tiny amount I would probably just leave it sitting there with them to sort out if they ever come to their senses. 

Marcon

MrsBrush said:

This is perhaps an unusual situation, so just hoping someone can help.

My father-in-law passed away in November, and had very few assets in the UK. He had lived in England for over 50 years, so had a UK state pension and a very small private pension, and a single UK bank acount with a small balance. His estate is made of this very small UK element and his overseas assets, his house. This is in his homeland, in a tiny rural community, and we are in the process of following the necessary steps for that country for my husband to inherit the house. Note that my husband is the only child, so no siblings. That is all under control and from all advice we have been given, the house falls outside UK jursitiction and must be dealt with in FIL's home country. 

DWP have stopped the state pension with no problems.  We have been able to share the translation of the death certificate with the bank, and they have verbally confirmed that because there is such a small remaining balance, they can close the account and release the funds to my husband. We are still waiting for final written confirmation of this, but the balance is in the region of £3500. These funds will ultimately be used to pay some tax that is due in the home country.

The remaining issue is the small private pension. The company has confirmed that the pension has been stopped, and there are no further beneficiary rights, no entitement to ongoing payments for family members etc.  There is a very small balance due to the estate for the pension that was due between the regularly monthly payment to FIL and his date of death. The absolute most it will be is £71, and I am expecting the entitlement to be no more than £45.  

However, the company has been chasing us for a letter of administration, which would be to deal with this single entitlement that is due to the estate.  So far, they have been the most tricky to deal with, as it seems to operate on a very strict set of parameters, with no obvious way of contacting them outside of their online forms.

This leaves me with 2 questions:

1 - Do we really need to go through the process of navigating the probate service, to get a letter of administration, where there is basically nothing to administer and this final payment to distribute to my husband, who is the sole beneficiary?

 2 - What do we need to do to get the pension company to release the final payment without a letter of administraion if we dont need one?

Many thanks in advance,


 

1. From what you've said in your post, no. Estates with a value of under £5K don't usually need probate.
2. Your husband needs to write to them and point out that: the estate is valued at under £5K and therefore probate is not required; say that he is the only child and there is no spouse, so he will inherit; and ask them to release the funds to him. If they refuse or don't reply within a reasonable time period (think at least a month), he should start the pension company's formal complaints procedure (it'll be on their website or details will be available on request from them).

HobgoblinBT

To add to Marcon’s good advice, enclose a copy of your birth certificate with the letter to the pension company to confirm to them that they are paying away the money to the right person.

poseidon1

For completeness, despite the property you mention being overseas  it may nonetheless be declarable in the UK if the value in UK terms exceeds £100k. 

This is based on your FIL having acquired a UK domicile of choice by reasons of his tax residence here for 50 years, which potentially makes him liable to UK IHT on a worldwide basis ( one of the reasons wealthy non doms are fleeing the UK ). Not sure what advice you received and from whom,  that indicated to the contrary.

However if the property is  less than £100k in value , it appears no UK reporting obligations required ( seems excepted estate rules would apply), but bear in mind the technical reporting requirement (via IHT 400 ) if letters of administration prove to be necessary and the property value does  indeed exceed £100k. 

Keep_pedalling

It will cost you £300 to obtain LOA, so not worth it for such a tiny amount. I would write to them make a formal complaint. 

MrsBrush

Thank you everyone for responding, that has been hugely helpful.

For what should be a really simple process on the surface, FIL's death has caused a huge administration headache beyond the obvious emotional loss both in his home country and here in the UK. He was elderly, with dementia, so was in no fit state at the end to get things in order. However, he also had poor literacy skills and almost no awareness of legalities to start with, as my Mother in Law dealth with everything before she died in 2017, so he left us a right old mess to try and sort out. 

I think we are likely to fall significantly below the £100k reporting requirement in the UK, because the property is probably only worth somewhere in the region of EUR 80-90k, and it needs a significant amount of money spending on it to get it up to spec, which obvously affects the value, and there was only EUR 178 left in the overseas bank account. 

My husband had to send money over to the extended family to pay for the funeral, which was EUR3500, and there are outstanding taxes and other fees due as well, so we wont know for certain until the property is valued. That will take place in the next few weeks. Brexit hasnt helped the situation either, as the rules for dealing with cross-border transactions with that country has created a separate headache to pay the local taxes!

We will take further advice here in the UK when we know the final amount we are dealing with, because who knows what will happen with the inheritance tax situation here in the meantime! This is going to take some time to sort out.

I will certainly get my husband to write to the pension company here in the UK. Of all of the organisations we have needed to deal with to try and sort this mess out, this lot have the smallest amount of value to the estate and they have been the most problematic! 

poppystar

MrsBrush said:

I will certainly get my husband to write to the pension company here in the UK. Of all of the organisations we have needed to deal with to try and sort this mess out, this lot have the smallest amount of value to the estate and they have been the most problematic! 

I think there is some sort of universal principle here😄 - dealing with both of my parents’ estates it was the organisations with the lowest amount of money that had to be dealt with that generated the most hassle and took longest to resolve! 

MrsBrush

poppystar said:

MrsBrush said:

I will certainly get my husband to write to the pension company here in the UK. Of all of the organisations we have needed to deal with to try and sort this mess out, this lot have the smallest amount of value to the estate and they have been the most problematic! 

I think there is some sort of universal principle here😄 - dealing with both of my parents’ estates it was the organisations with the lowest amount of money that had to be dealt with that generated the most hassle and took longest to resolve! 

Well, the sage continues... letter has been sent to the pension company (Aptia, who I will probably avoid in future). 

The response tonight - they have told us to send a copy of the will to them so they can release the funds, as there is no need for a letter of administration or probate. 

The fact is, a will does not exist, which was pointed out at the start of this saga... aaggh!!

Any ideas, beyond finding a phone number and shouting at them...which will clearly just wind me up more and not help anyway!

RAS

Put in formal complaint, saying exactly what you have just told us.

It might also be useful to include copies of the death certificate (if not already sent), his marriage certificate and your husband's birth certificate?

And request that they use those to verify the recipient.