Smart meter installation aborted by engineer

Karinet

Hello,

Last week I was due to have smart meter installed but the engineer aborted the installation, as he suspected that the backboard contains asbestos.

I am a leaseholder in a block of flats and my meter is located outside my flat,in the communal area, side by side with my neighbour's.  I was told by the engineer that neither the DNO nor the energy supplier is responsible for the safe removal of the board but the property owner is.  Does that mean that I am personally responsible for the safe removal of the board and its replacement, even though it's not inside my flat?  Or should it be the landlord's responsibility? 

I have contacted EDF, my energy supplier, and they insist it's not their responsibility to have the board removed and replaced.  But, despite not contacting me regarding the RTS switch-off in June this year, they've told me that my meter doesn't need the RTS device and works independently from it.  I have a Siemens S2BS 100 meter, which seems to be attached to the RTS device though.

Do you or did you have this meter (see photo)? Do you know how it works and if it does depend on an RTS unit to switch from the day to the night rate? It''s very hard to get hold of anyone at EDF and I am not confident that they are telling me the right thing.

If it doesn't needs an RTS device then I won't need to worry about having the board replaced and, therefore, I can carry on as I am and not have a smart meter fitted before the change in June.

Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated.

Thanks 

Karine

wrf12345

Looks like you have two power outputs from the meter so whatever is not connected to the RTS should still work but what happens to the RTS itself, whether it opens the circuit or not when no radio signal I don't know.

Scot_39

AFAIK 

Leaseholders are normally fully responsible (AFAIK based on the different "factoring" schemes - self and external - family have been exposed to north of the border - so could be wrong) for building maintenance bills when carried out by freeholders or their appointed management companies.  Their may or may not be a sink fund to cover some irregular things - but quite often anything over regular maintenance might attract an actual £s bill.

Renters - as you use the term landlord - are not - the landlord is.

However its possible there may be no charge.

If its a safety issue - and again from what I have read the meter fitter should have notified the DNO.

Asbestos not unheard of - and according to OVO here - it's a job for the regional DNO

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-meters-136/my-smart-meter-installation-was-aborted-due-to-asbestos-what-should-i-do-next-9071

According to one DNO that looks correct

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/safety-equipment/equipment-and-cables/replace-meter-board#Whatsinvolved

See the FAQ on Will work be competed on first visit - it does mention asbestos boards

"We will always aim to complete the work on the first visit if possible. When our expert visits you, they’ll let you know if anything needs to be done before they can complete the work. Occasionally the job may take longer to complete if there is asbestos in the meter board as this will require a specialist engineer to attend."

If they wont touch it - likelihood is the DNO will need to disconnect the feed - someone else - asbestos and electrically authorised will have to replace - and then remount the feed once it has been replaced.

See a similar thread from c4 years ago - this person was renting

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6306617/electric-meter-asbestos-backboard-help

Rodders53

Probably needs to be tested and confirm that asbestos is or is not present.

According to another energy provider it's a job for your DNO (Distribution Network Operator) to remove and replace it (only the DNO can remove the main fuse)...  Highly probable it is from the age.

Who's responsible for what? A guide on who to contact to help maintain each part of your gas and electricity setup | The OVO Forum 

It's possible they may charge for this as the backing board is officially yours...  NB It may come under the Freeholder's remit in the same way as other Communal Area maintenance (however you'll still pay for it via the Service charges).

Call your DNO to confirm? Who’s my electricity network operator? – Energy Networks Association (ENA)

MY DNO says this about a damaged/possible asbestos backing board replacement
Replace meter board | UK Power Networks 
That says 

If your electricity supplier is unable to change your electricity meter without replacing your meter board, they will need to report this to us directly using an D0135 electronic flow which will notify us.

Lastly, as I understand it RTS unit will likely carry on switching on a free-wheeling clock time for E7 heating that will drift in the fullness of time (the Long Wave teleswitching signal updates that clock daily and CAN - but no longer does - alter the on/off times).
 

ROY47

Something isn't right with that set up anybody else spot it ?

Incoming cable doesn't look like a DNO feed , main incoming cable should have cover over it  plus  there is no main fuse between the incoming cable and meter so no way to isolate it

Looks like a sub main feed  but I may be wrong there is some weird gear out there

can you check serial number on meter to the one on your bill ?

Ectophile

There may be a BNO (Building Network Operator) involved, just to confuse things.  BNOs were invented as a way for DNOs to say "not our problem" when faced with dodgy electrics in blocks of flats.  They will claim that their remit ends at the main plant room where the supply comes in.

The BNO is normally the landlord or their managing agent.

Karinet

Hello,

What I meant by landlord is the freeholder.

I have already established that the DNO won't replace the board because their fuse is not on it but in a cupboard at the bottom of the building.  There is nothing wrong with the set up and the isolation would come from in the intake cupboard at the bottom of the building.  This is because it's a flat, not a house.  If it was a house, it would be the DNO's responsibility to remove or replace the board.  This means that someone who lives in a house gets the job done for them free of charge whereas, if they live in a flat, they have to pay for it. It's so unfair. They are electric meter backboards in both contexts but, for some reason, if it's a flat, the backboard is classed as part of the building but for a house it's not the case.  Very strange.

I initially did not want a smart meter, as I was happy with my traditional meter but the energy companies are forcing everyone to have one installed.  But for some of us it's proving problematic because of the asbestos issue and we find ourselves in a situation that's out of our control.

Additionally, EDF failed in their duty to inform me, by email or other forms of communication, of the switch-off in June. I only found out on the news.  Also, EDF are vague because they are not telling me if I have to arrange for the asbestos removal, if asbestos is present, and get the management to pay for it or if they are going to do this themselves and charge the management for it.

The whole experience has left me in a dilemma as I have to race against time to get this sorted out before the switch-off.

Karinet

wrf12345 said:

Looks like you have two power outputs from the meter so whatever is not connected to the RTS should still work but what happens to the RTS itself, whether it opens the circuit or not when no radio signal I don't know.

Thanks for your reply.

But it looks like the RTS is connected to the meter.  My guess is that once the RTS is switched-off, it won''t stop the meter from working but it will not be able to switch between E7 and day rate.  This probably means I will lose the E7 and end up on a single rate.

QrizB

Karinet said:

But it looks like the RTS is connected to the meter.  My guess is that once the RTS is switched-off, it won''t stop the meter from working but it will not be able to switch between E7 and day rate.  This probably means I will lose the E7 and end up on a single rate.

The meter will still work.

It's likely (not guaranted) that the RTS will still switch the meter between day and night rate, and will still switch your storage heaters and electric water heater on and off.

What's least certain is what times that switching will occur.

Karinet said:

 This means that someone who lives in a house gets the job done for them free of charge whereas, if they live in a flat, they have to pay for it. It's so unfair. They are electric meter backboards in both contexts but, for some reason, if it's a flat, the backboard is classed as part of the building but for a house it's not the case.

As above, as the DNO cut-out isn't attached to your meter backboard, the DNO have no interest in it.

It's just one of the things that comes with having this type of supply.

I have seen pictures on this forum from flats where the DNO cut-out is on the meter backboard, so it's not something that affects all flats.

Karinet

QrizB said:

Karinet said:

But it looks like the RTS is connected to the meter.  My guess is that once the RTS is switched-off, it won''t stop the meter from working but it will not be able to switch between E7 and day rate.  This probably means I will lose the E7 and end up on a single rate.

The meter will still work.

It's likely (not guaranted) that the RTS will still switch the meter between day and night rate, and will still switch your storage heaters and electric water heater on and off.

What's least certain is what times that switching will occur.

Karinet said:

 This means that someone who lives in a house gets the job done for them free of charge whereas, if they live in a flat, they have to pay for it. It's so unfair. They are electric meter backboards in both contexts but, for some reason, if it's a flat, the backboard is classed as part of the building but for a house it's not the case.

As above, as the DNO cut-out isn't attached to your meter backboard, the DNO have no interest in it.

It's just one of the things that comes with having this type of supply.

I have seen pictures on this forum from flats where the DNO cut-out is on the meter backboard, so it's not something that affects all flats.

Thanks for your reply.  So we are unfortunate with this and we have no control over this situation.  Were it not for the backboard, i would have had a smart meter installed by now.  And that's really bad because EDF never mentioned anything of the RTS switch off.  One thing I forgot to mention.  About a year and a half ago, a resident who lives in the building next door to.mine, the building is identical to mine and he has exactly the same bacboard, had a smart meter fitted and I saw it. So, myself and three other residents were refused a smart meter installation but he wasn't.  His energy supplier is the same as ours.  I've queried this with EDF but to no avail.  I even sent them photographic evidence but they are unwilling to investigate.

Going back to switching from day to night rate & vice versa, this may mean much higher bills, which I don't really want. It's already expensive as it is.

Ildhund

This is a sorry situation. However, it's not certain that the backboard contains asbestos, and that won't be apparent until someone has taken a sample and had it tested, although an SSEN compliance technician was recently quoted as saying that whoever called him in should have been able to tell the difference between an Asbestolux backboard and a Supalux one. It's possible that the local ratcatcher (i.e. a council Environmental Health Officer) could advise if you or the freeholder were to ask nicely. 

It's only if it turns out that the backboard does indeed contain asbestos that it begins to get both complicated and potentially costly. It's possible that your supplier has meter engineers specially trained, certified and equipped to handle asbestos, in which case the whole process would be much simpler. You would have to do battle with the freeholder to determine who should pay the £30 for a new backboard and fixings and have it ready for the engineer to mount once the old one has been dismantled. Meter engineers have authority to pull the main fuse - they just have to tell the DNO what they're doing. It's not guaranteed that the supplier would do all this free of charge, so ask if they can and what it would cost if anything.