British Gas unable to install a smart meter?

playlister82

Ah ok. I misunderstood - it is the RTS that I have. I know that because British Gas initially contacted me to tell me that I had one needing replacement, I didn't know anything about these things before I lived here.

So my question still remains about whether my meter will still "know" the time of day and be able to switch rates when its RTS signal is switched off in June.

Many articles online suggest that it won't know the time and my hot water / heating will start to heat at the wrong times, or not heat at all.

QrizB

playlister82 said:

So my question still remains about whether my meter will still "know" the time of day and be able to switch rates when its RTS signal is switched off in June.

iIt probably will.

There's a small chance that it won't.

There's also the issue that your meter is an antique from 1988 and needs replacing anyway.

playlister82

QrizB said:

playlister82 said:

So my question still remains about whether my meter will still "know" the time of day and be able to switch rates when its RTS signal is switched off in June.

iIt probably will.

Thanks, it's just so confusing that all the articles I found online said it definitely won't. And disappointing that British Gas have no interest in helping. 

Gerry1

I'd wager that you won't notice any difference, even if the R4 Long Wave RTS signal disappears at the end of June and takes the R4 programmes with it.

Both are a bit unlikely IMHO, it's only a target date; my RTS carried on regardless when Droitwich was off for maintenance or because of bad weather.  It's probably caused by a mixture of lack of detailed technical knowledge plus deliberate scaremongering to speed up  the sluggish acceptance of smart meters.

The 'drop dead' date is the end of the year, but even that could be delayed, the switch off has been repeatedly deferred for a decade or more.

playlister82

Gerry1 said:

I'd wager that you won't notice any difference, even if the R4 Long Wave RTS signal disappears at the end of June and takes the R4 programmes with it.

Both are a bit unlikely IMHO, it's only a target date; my RTS carried on regardless when Droitwich was off for maintenance or because of bad weather.  It's probably caused by a mixture of lack of detailed technical knowledge plus deliberate scaremongering to speed up  the sluggish acceptance of smart meters.

The 'drop dead' date is the end of the year, but even that could be delayed, the switch off has been repeatedly deferred for a decade or more.

Thanks so if I understand correctly, the meter is always switching between day and night rate by itself, and it just uses the signal to “check” it’s got the right time?

playlister82

The messaging on every energy supplier website says that the radio signal "tells" the meter when to switch, not that the meter is just "checking" for the time whilst being capable of updating itself. Sorry I am just really curious about this.

Gerry1

That's my understanding, it's sent a carousel of switching times and it free runs with those until told otherwise.  Just like your digital watch: leave it a drawer, forget about it and it'll still be sounding your morning wakeup within a minute or two in a year's time.

As I've said, it can't be just an instantaneous 'Switch Now' signal because the user could block it, or failure/maintenance of the transmitter would leave it stuck on the wrong rate.  It must follow a stored schedule.

The suppliers get fined if they miss their smart meter targets, so it's not in their interests to say that E7 would run on much the same for the time being.

Unless the Powers That Be decide go for the coup de grâce, e.g. to set them all to 24h peak rate and/or not to power up the E7 circuits...

playlister82

Gerry1 said:

That's my understanding, it's sent a carousel of switching times and it free runs with those until told otherwise.  Just like your digital watch: leave it a drawer, forget about it and it'll still be sounding your morning wakeup within a minute or two in a year's time.

As I've said, it can't be just an instantaneous 'Switch Now' signal because the user could block it, or failure/maintenance of the transmitter would leave it stuck on the wrong rate.  It must follow a stored schedule.

The suppliers get fined if they miss their smart meter targets, so it's not in their interests to say that E7 would run on much the same for the time being.

Unless the Powers That Be decide go for the coup de grâce, e.g. to set them all to 24h peak rate and/or not to power up the E7 circuits...

Sorry to keep asking more questions about this. I understand from what you've said that the meter can tick by by itself without a radio signal, but do the storage heaters in my flat need the radio signal to work? I've seen specific online information that says they do (signal tells meter it's night time, turns on storage heater circuits to start storing heat).

Or does the meter independently tell them to switch on at night, regardless of the radio signal?

Scot_39

playlister82 said:

Ah ok. I misunderstood - it is the RTS that I have. I know that because British Gas initially contacted me to tell me that I had one needing replacement, I didn't know anything about these things before I lived here.

So my question still remains about whether my meter will still "know" the time of day and be able to switch rates when its RTS signal is switched off in June.

Many articles online suggest that it won't know the time and my hot water / heating will start to heat at the wrong times, or not heat at all.

If you have a two rate RTS meter - to support an all electric home - it is absolutely unbelievable that anyone wouldn't expect you to need a meter with ALCS - the single box solution a 5 port meter (or in some cases a 4 port with external meter switched contactor) to replace it.

Sadly BG do not have a good reputation for E7 in particular - and even iirc one of their EV style deals - left many of their customers cheap rate times out by an hour from their promised timing.

Many but not all later generation digital meters, smets1 and smets2 smart meters - come with ALCS / restricted feed switching facilities and are the masters for timing and rate selection.

Some older model digital and analogue were slaves to timing / circuit switching from either electro mechanical or RTS electronic switches (one major advantage is that RTS models have their times updated to avoid drift over time).

I'd hope/ suspect your talking to someone not very well trained at BG - or if thats the reality of BG today -

I would be ringing around other suppliers sharpish - as many have been fitting such 2 rate alcs smart meters for several years.  

My RTS was replaced years ago by - originally by a digital ALCS with on board contactor 5 port - it was replaced by a 4 port smart ALCS with external contactor.

Scot_39

There is no one standard for RTS.

Different manufacturer's / different circuit layouts etc.  My RTS was a meter - others are just switches that drive dual rate external meters rate selection - like yours.

[They couldn't mimic my metering / wiring / billing setup - so my HW and NSH circuits were merged - and the whole house now sees peak and off peak rates - before the rest of the house was single rate only.]

But I can sympaphise with the @Gerry1 view - that proper engineers could - arguably should - have built in contingency for LW radio outages.  (But good engineers arent always the ones making such decisions)

But I can also see suppliers taking the attitude that the meters are no longer guaranteed to switch as designed - and so no longer offering multirate tariffs like E7 on them - defending themselves against selling you day rate electric at night time pricing.

With electric heating it's not worth the gamble - either get BG to fit a suitable ALCS meter - or as above switch to one who can.