Floor Plan Advice

Arslan87

Hi I am in the process of purchasing a detached 3-bedroom property that needs modernising. The main area on the house I would like to change is the kitchen/diner. It’s really outdated and I think the layout can be improved. I have set aside £40k for any extension/renovation work but I am unsure if it’s worth extending it to create a better shape or will it be a struggle with this budget. See three floor plans, original, with extension and third without extension. I like the idea of keeping the lounge & diner semi connected but also like the idea of having bigger bifolds at the kitchen

knightstyle

i think the cost of moving the wall out may not be possible, along with the other works, with your budget, it depends on what is above and supporting the outside wall.  Plus what condition are the electrics, boiler, plumbing in? The only other point I would make is that there does not seem to be anywhere for coats, shoes etc. I would knock through into the storage area at the bottom of the stairs for this.

Section62

Arslan87 said:

Hi I am in the process of purchasing a detached 3-bedroom property that needs modernising. The main area on the house I would like to change is the kitchen/diner. It’s really outdated and I think the layout can be improved. I have set aside £40k for any extension/renovation work but I am unsure if it’s worth extending it to create a better shape or will it be a struggle with this budget. See three floor plans, original, with extension and third without extension. I like the idea of keeping the lounge & diner semi connected but also like the idea of having bigger bifolds at the kitchen

How old is the property?

What is the situation with restrictive covenants and planning conditions/restrictions?

A first floor plan would also be useful in terms of identifying where the drainage is, and giving clues about the structure.

Arslan87

The property is made in the 80s, electrics should be good but I am planning to get a combi boiler fitted and moved to garage. Will cost around £4.5k. 

Later down the line I am planning to move the downstairs bathroom under the stairs, and do a garage conversion with and improved entry way and door into the converted room.

 I am speaking to a structural engineer to what will be possible and at what cost but can’t really move forward till I have the keys

Arslan87

Section62 said:

Arslan87 said:

Hi I am in the process of purchasing a detached 3-bedroom property that needs modernising. The main area on the house I would like to change is the kitchen/diner. It’s really outdated and I think the layout can be improved. I have set aside £40k for any extension/renovation work but I am unsure if it’s worth extending it to create a better shape or will it be a struggle with this budget. See three floor plans, original, with extension and third without extension. I like the idea of keeping the lounge & diner semi connected but also like the idea of having bigger bifolds at the kitchen

How old is the property?

What is the situation with restrictive covenants and planning conditions/restrictions?

A first floor plan would also be useful in terms of identifying where the drainage is, and giving clues about the structure.

The garage & Utility are single storey, see below floor plan for the agents (not really accurate) but shows the 1st floor. I will be speaking to structural engineers on both ideas to see what they think. I know an extension even with a minor increase in floor space will be costly.

FreeBear

Arslan87 said:

The property is made in the 80s, electrics should be good but I am planning to get a combi boiler fitted and moved to garage. Will cost around £4.5k.

When I was shopping for a combi, most of the engineers were recommending installing it in the garage. But that would have meant fitting a frost stat and having the boiler fire up at regular intervals just to keep its self warm. A waste of gas in my opinion. On top of that, there is typically around a 6% heat loss through the casing when the boiler is running.

Instead, I had the boiler installed in the hallway, so no need for a frost stat, and heat loss through the casing supplements the radiator.

If I were to do it all again today, I would seriously consider a heat pump - Octopus were quoting a price not far off what I paid for the boiler. Only a couple of hundred more, but would have included new, larger radiators where needed.

On the subject of your proposed changes, you are knocking down two internal walls and making an opening much wider - This may well need a tee steel, which gets very expensive. On top of that, a huge (bifold ?) door and a patio door are going to loose quite a bit of heat through them. You may struggle to hit the thermal targets set by Building Control unless you add lots of insulation elsewhere. I get the feeling that a £40K budget is a bit optimistic, even more so once you've factored in a new kitchen.

casper_gutman

Either of the options you're considering will make a massive improvement to this house to my mind.

I agree with others that an extension (even a very small extension) will likely blow your budget. I'd consider going for the second of your floorplan options but possibly modifying it to keep the bifolds within the existing kitchen space. This will simplify the structural issues (eliminating the T-shaped steel mentioned by FreeBear) and allow more flexibility to the kitchen layout.

If you use the extra wall space for a U-shape plus island arrangement then the kitchen won't need to come out so far towards the dining area. If you moved the sink in front of a window looking out to the garden then the internal wall where you've shown the sink could have a run of tall units and maybe an 'appliance garage' or breakfast unit so you can maximise storage and maintain an uncluttered look. Combining this with eliminating wall units could give a really good sense of space.

I think if you spend big on the extension and expensive structural modifications then the danger is that you could have to make serious compromises on quality of finishes to stay anywhere close to your budget.

Section62

Arslan87 said:

Section62 said:

Arslan87 said:

Hi I am in the process of purchasing a detached 3-bedroom property that needs modernising. The main area on the house I would like to change is the kitchen/diner. It’s really outdated and I think the layout can be improved. I have set aside £40k for any extension/renovation work but I am unsure if it’s worth extending it to create a better shape or will it be a struggle with this budget. See three floor plans, original, with extension and third without extension. I like the idea of keeping the lounge & diner semi connected but also like the idea of having bigger bifolds at the kitchen

How old is the property?

What is the situation with restrictive covenants and planning conditions/restrictions?

A first floor plan would also be useful in terms of identifying where the drainage is, and giving clues about the structure.

The garage & Utility are single storey, see below floor plan for the agents (not really accurate) but shows the 1st floor. I will be speaking to structural engineers on both ideas to see what they think. I know an extension even with a minor increase in floor space will be costly.

If the garage and utility are single storey then it means the wall between the garage/utility and hallway/kitchen will be structural - i.e. above ground floor level it is the external wall.  Removing the wall between the kitchen and utility therefore would be a structural project, and not one to be undertaken lightly.

E.g. in your second design the steel beam you'd need to support the first floor and roof would meet the external wall above the kitchen sink, where you've proposed a window.  You would either need to move the window elsewhere, or have a 'T'-beam arrangement.

Extending the utility by ~1m is rather pointless.  You incur the costs of removing and replacing that wall, without actually gaining very much. (bear in mind to meet building regs the new walls are likely to need to be thicker than existing, so you wouldn't have a 'flush' wall for the kitchen units as shown)

Subject to planning and covenants, I think you might be better off with a single storey extension across the outside of the current kitchen and diner, increasing the opening from the kitchen to give you an 'L' shaped kitchen diner.  It would be easier (hence cheaper) to fit bifolds into an extension than try to work them into an existing external wall.

The extension would cost more than your budget, but then that also is almost certainly true of the other options of reworking the interior.  However, the advantage of extending (subject to PP and covenants) is you ending up with more floorspace than you currently have, rather than spending your budget on steelwork to reconfigure the space with no net gain.

In terms of the garage plans, you do need to check for planning conditions and/or covenants, as the 1980's was around the time planning policy demanded adequate parking provision. You also need to check whether the garage wall is single brick. If it is, then incorporating the garage into the house will require that wall to have additional insulation - meaning the finished room will be smaller than you might expect.  Often garage conversions are a cheap way of adding floorspace, but in your case the layout doesn't really lend itself to making good use of the converted garage, other than perhaps a ground-floor bedroom or office.

Arslan87

Thank you all, great feedback. I am definitely leaning towards solution 2 which will still be a big improvement. True can reduce the bifold width to increase kitchen size, layout can definitely be optimised this was just a quick idea. Regarding the boiler I was planning to move it to the new utility, will definitely go for the heat pump as recommended. I had set aside around £12k for the kitchen with appliances & quartz worktop based on some of the quotes I have received for high street kitchen providers. 

I have heard good things about DIY kitchens, will definitely explore with them also

Section62

Arslan87 said:

Thank you all, great feedback. I am definitely leaning towards solution 2 which will still be a big improvement. True can reduce the bifold width to increase kitchen size, layout can definitely be optimised this was just a quick idea. Regarding the boiler I was planning to move it to the new utility, will definitely go for the heat pump as recommended. I had set aside around £12k for the kitchen with appliances & quartz worktop based on some of the quotes I have received for high street kitchen providers. 

I have heard good things about DIY kitchens, will definitely explore with them also

If your total budget is £40k and you've set aside around £12k for fitting out the kitchen, then your budget is tight to start doing a whole load of structural work.

Maybe a rethink?  Depending how long you plan to be in the property, spend a minimum of the £40k on things you really have to do when you move in, then put the rest aside and add to it until you have enough to be able to do the job properly.  Another advantage of delaying for a while is having lived in the property for some time you'll have a better idea of how you want to use it and how the rooms work as they are, plus how the house relates to the garden.  E.g. you may find one part of the garden better for sitting out in than another, in which case the decision where the bifolds go may be led by that, rather than which wall is easiest to make a hole in.

Trying to (re)design a home just from plans isn't a great idea.  You need to have a 'feel' for the property which you just can't get from drawings.

FreeBear

casper_gutman said: If you moved the sink in front of a window looking out to the garden then the internal wall where you've shown the sink could have a run of tall units and maybe an 'appliance garage' or breakfast unit so you can maximise storage and maintain an uncluttered look. Combining this with eliminating wall units could give a really good sense of space.

I'm all for elimination of wall units. If you are vertically challenged, it saving having to get on a high horse (or step ladder) to get stuff from the top shelf. for those that are a little taller, it saves banging your head on the cupboards when prepping on the work surface (or getting smacked in the face by an open door).

Did away with wall units in my kitchen, and the space certainly feels a lot larger for it. Also less space to hide crap'n'tat, so puts a limit on hoarding.