latam delayed flight over 3 hours - getting nowhere

marcus1234

hi,

i have been going back and forth opening a claim with Latam for a 3 hour + delayed flight from madrid spain to lima peru. just before the 2-month mark, i received a response saying my flight was not delayed which is a blatant lie. i presented the official flight log and photos of the arrival screen at the airport confirming the 3-hour plus delay on arrival. they say this is the final answer. i have gone to the Spanish national enforcement body (after caa said i have to as from Spain after exhausting options with Latam airline) after filling in a tedious application with them it said i need to sign and hand in to the office which i cant do as i am not in spain. i seem to be getting nowhere but am 100% entitled to compensation under ec/261/2004 regulation leaving from a EU airport. any advice appreciated

eskbanker

If you're not getting anywhere with the airline and are unable to proceed with the Spanish enforcement body then it would seem likely that court is the only other avenue, but unsure if that can be done remotely either.

Was the reason for the delay definitely something within the airline's control?

Caz3121

I am guessing this was 23rd December - only date I can find with 3 hour+ delay. What was the reason you were given for the delay?

If it is that date and other options not viable, you may want to consider giving it to a third party to deal with...Euclaim shows

You are most likely entitled to a compensation of € 300,00 per person.

so they appear to see that the flight was delayed over 3 hours (and less than 4)

mdann52

Bear in mind that as this is a flight that doesn't touch the UK, showing jurisdiction of a UK court to hear the case may be tricky, and may require filling the case in Spain or Chile.

marcus1234

Caz3121 said:

I am guessing this was 23rd December - only date I can find with 3 hour+ delay. What was the reason you were given for the delay?

If it is that date and other options not viable, you may want to consider giving it to a third party to deal with...Euclaim shows

You are most likely entitled to a compensation of € 300,00 per person.

so they appear to see that the flight was delayed over 3 hours (and less than 4)

yes it seems so, unfortunately, I can't understand how the airline can just ignore clear evidence, they know was delayed over 3 hours. Are there any third party people recommend? airflights, claimflights etc? thanks

eskbanker

marcus1234 said:

Caz3121 said:

I am guessing this was 23rd December - only date I can find with 3 hour+ delay. What was the reason you were given for the delay?

If it is that date and other options not viable, you may want to consider giving it to a third party to deal with...Euclaim shows

You are most likely entitled to a compensation of € 300,00 per person.

so they appear to see that the flight was delayed over 3 hours (and less than 4)

yes it seems so, unfortunately, I can't understand how the airline can just ignore clear evidence, they know was delayed over 3 hours. Are there any third party people recommend? airflights, claimflights etc? thanks

I wouldn't use a third party company that said €300pp for a transatlantic flight, where if compensation is due it would be €600pp!

marcus1234 said:

i presented the official flight log and photos of the arrival screen at the airport confirming the 3-hour plus delay on arrival.

What do you mean by 'the official flight log', i.e. where did you source such a document/record?  Did this cover the reason for the delay, which influences compensation eligibility?

Caz3121

eskbanker said:

I wouldn't use a third party company that said €300pp for a transatlantic flight, where if compensation is due it would be €600pp!

the regulations state that €600 is due for delays over 4 hours for flights > 3500km

Delay

1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure:

(a) for two hours or more in the case of flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or

(b) for three hours or more in the case of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and of all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or

(c) for four hours or more in the case of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),

Sturgeon case in 2009 ruled that passengers on long haul delayed over 3 hours but under 4 should receive 50%

"63      It is important to point out that the compensation payable to a passenger under Article 7(1) of Regulation No 261/2004 may be reduced by 50% if the conditions laid down in Article 7(2) of the regulation are met. Even though the latter provision refers only to the case of re-routing of passengers, the Court finds that the reduction in the compensation provided for is dependent solely on the delay to which passengers are subject, so that nothing precludes the application mutatis mutandis of that provision to compensation paid to passengers whose flights are delayed. It follows that the compensation payable to a passenger whose flight is delayed, who reaches his final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled, may be reduced by 50%, in accordance with Article 7(2)(c) of Regulation No 261/2004, where the delay is – in the case of a flight not falling under points (a) or (b) of Article 7(2) – less than four hours."

https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=73703&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=15635824

eskbanker

Caz3121 said:

eskbanker said:

I wouldn't use a third party company that said €300pp for a transatlantic flight, where if compensation is due it would be €600pp!

the regulations state that €600 is due for delays over 4 hours for flights > 3500km

Delay

1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure:

(a) for two hours or more in the case of flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or

(b) for three hours or more in the case of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and of all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or

(c) for four hours or more in the case of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),

That article 6(1) relates to delays to expected departure time, not arrival time, in that it triggers the pre-departure article 9 right to care provisions, and is unrelated to compensation.

Caz3121 said:

Sturgeon case in 2009 ruled that passengers on long haul delayed over 3 hours but under 4 should receive 50%

"63      It is important to point out that the compensation payable to a passenger under Article 7(1) of Regulation No 261/2004 may be reduced by 50% if the conditions laid down in Article 7(2) of the regulation are met. Even though the latter provision refers only to the case of re-routing of passengers, the Court finds that the reduction in the compensation provided for is dependent solely on the delay to which passengers are subject, so that nothing precludes the application mutatis mutandis of that provision to compensation paid to passengers whose flights are delayed. It follows that the compensation payable to a passenger whose flight is delayed, who reaches his final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled, may be reduced by 50%, in accordance with Article 7(2)(c) of Regulation No 261/2004, where the delay is – in the case of a flight not falling under points (a) or (b) of Article 7(2) – less than four hours."

https://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=73703&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=15635824

I must admit that I don't recall seeing that within the body of that judgment, and it doesn't feature in the summary rulings at the end - the UK version of the regulations was amended to expressly clarify that "In case of a delay of three hours or more in reaching the final destination, the passengers concerned have the right to compensation laid down in Article 7", but don't know if anything similar was applied to the EU originals, which obviously apply here!

Caz3121

The UK one also covers 50% for 3-4 hours
table here for long haul shows £520 for 4 hours+ delay but £260 for 3-4 hours https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delay-compensation/

eskbanker

Fair enough, my mistake then!

I still don't understand why a standardised three hours is specified in the above extra wording in article 6.3 - it does cross-refer to article 7, but the sliding scale in 7.2 is specifically about rerouting (if the Sturgeon point was being factored in then it should have been made explicit when amending the legislation) and also states two hours for the shortest distances, so an opportunity to clarify was missed and arguably the legislation was made less clear....