False Product Information

Sprice72

I bought a Bean to Cup Coffee Machine, as trying to save money on all the Latte's I have been buying.  So I looked around and decided on a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos, as it had an in built milk frother and was a good price.  So I bought in November, had a little trouble setting up but finally got it working, albeit a few months later.  I read the product guide as well as looking at you-tube video's but I couldn't find out how to make a latte, so I messaged Argos and they came back and stated that oh sorry this machine does not make latte's, although within the product description it stated it made 10 different coffee options & that they would update the description.  I had a lot of things going on so it was awhile before I sent a message to Argos to ask for a refund/replacement & they said to go to DeLonghi as outside the 30 days.  So spoke to them & they said that it's not their issue as Argos have incorrectly described the product.  So I spoke to Argos again and I said that Delonghi would not give me a 'code' which Argos asked for me to get as it is Argos's error not theirs (I checked their website and this product does not make lattes & only has 4 options) at this point Argos's own website was still showing incorrect product info.  The 'chat' person said that they would get a manager to call me within 16 hours (did not happen).  So I phoned them instead of using the chat and said I wanted to make a complaint & explained. The lady said that she would speak to a Manager and came back and she asked what I wanted to do and said either a refund or exchange, however, she said speak to a Manager, so off she went.  I can't do a refund but I can offer an exchange, so a bit on the spot I had a look and all of the machines I liked were more expensive and not willing to pay and extra £100-£200 and the only other one I wasn't chancing that their product description was correct.  The other offer was just £30.00 compensation.  I was still not happy but said just give me the compensation but not happy as basically I have a machine that is not doing what I wanted based on Argos's product description.  I am planning on writing to Argos but just wanted to know what I could quote as in theory false advertising and I appreciate that I have had the machine for 3 months.  Thanks all

eskbanker

Sprice72 said:

The lady said that she would speak to a Manager and came back and she asked what I wanted to do and said either a refund or exchange, however, she said speak to a Manager, so off she went.  I can't do a refund but I can offer an exchange, so a bit on the spot I had a look and all of the machines I liked were more expensive and not willing to pay and extra £100-£200 and the only other one I wasn't chancing that their product description was correct.  The other offer was just £30.00 compensation.  I was still not happy but said just give me the compensation but not happy as basically I have a machine that is not doing what I wanted based on Argos's product description.  I am planning on writing to Argos but just wanted to know what I could quote as in theory false advertising and I appreciate that I have had the machine for 3 months.  Thanks all

If you've accepted their compensation offer, what else are you hoping to achieve by complaining?

HampshireH

Argos probably think your complaint is effectively resolved by accepting an outcome.

Have you received the £30 what are the terms of their complaints policy around accepting compensation?

I would have absolutely pushed this further but taking so long to realise doesn't really help your case.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

eskbanker said:

If you've accepted their compensation offer, what else are you hoping to achieve by complaining?

Yes but OP only accepted as they were mislead about their rights! 

OP goods must match the description:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/11

If they don't the retailer can replace or repair however that is impossible in this situation so you are entitled to exercise the final right to reject for a full refund.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/24

(5)A consumer who has the right to a price reduction and the final right to reject may only exercise one (not both), and may only do so in one of these situations—

(a)after one repair or one replacement, the goods do not conform to the contract;

(b)because of section 23(3) [23(3) being where it is impossible] the consumer can require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or

(c)the consumer has required the trader to repair or replace the goods, but the trader is in breach of the requirement of section 23(2)(a) to do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

I'd use the email on the CEO email website or write to head office detailing what you've said above (clearly but briefly with bullet points) noting you are exercising your final right to reject as repair/replace is impossible and that the customer services rep has breached the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations by misleading you about your consumer rights by only stating an exchange or £30 "compensation" was available and this breach gives you the right to treat the contract at an end.

Terrible behaviour, don't know how they get away with it. 

eskbanker

Ah, think I misread OP's statement about "I can't do a refund", which I now see was intended to be a quote from the Argos employee rather than OP's words, despite the lack of quotation marks when originally written!

Having said that, it may be worth re-examining the reference to not being able to make lattes with one of these, as it may not be a one-touch option but should be possible by combining the espresso and frothed milk in the correct proportions?  DeLonghi make that distinction in their documentation, but it's quite a sizable product range so exact specs will naturally vary....

powerful_Rogue

Just reading through the Q&A for the machine in question:

eskbanker

powerful_Rogue said:

Just reading through the Q&A for the machine in question:

Yes, that's the sort of thing I had in mind, but that might not be the machine in question, as there are 17 models listed at https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb/products/events/magnifica/c/magnifica-family !  Admittedly not all sold by Argos, but they currently sell at least five variants, but I'd expect all of them to have the capability to make a latte one way or another....

Grumpy_chap

Sprice72 said:

I bought a Bean to Cup Coffee Machine, as trying to save money on all the Latte's I have been buying.  So I looked around and decided on a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos, as it had an in built milk frother and was a good price.  So I bought in November, had a little trouble setting up but finally got it working, albeit a few months later.  I read the product guide as well as looking at you-tube video's but I couldn't find out how to make a latte, so I messaged Argos and they came back and stated that oh sorry this machine does not make latte's, although within the product description it stated it made 10 different coffee options & that they would update the description.  I had a lot of things going on so it was awhile before I sent a message to Argos to ask for a refund/replacement & they said to go to DeLonghi as outside the 30 days.  So spoke to them & they said that it's not their issue as Argos have incorrectly described the product.  So I spoke to Argos again and I said that Delonghi would not give me a 'code' which Argos asked for me to get as it is Argos's error not theirs (I checked their website and this product does not make lattes & only has 4 options) at this point Argos's own website was still showing incorrect product info.  The 'chat' person said that they would get a manager to call me within 16 hours (did not happen).  So I phoned them instead of using the chat and said I wanted to make a complaint & explained. The lady said that she would speak to a Manager and came back and she asked what I wanted to do and said either a refund or exchange, however, she said speak to a Manager, so off she went.  I can't do a refund but I can offer an exchange, so a bit on the spot I had a look and all of the machines I liked were more expensive and not willing to pay and extra £100-£200 and the only other one I wasn't chancing that their product description was correct.  The other offer was just £30.00 compensation.  I was still not happy but said just give me the compensation but not happy as basically I have a machine that is not doing what I wanted based on Argos's product description.  I am planning on writing to Argos but just wanted to know what I could quote as in theory false advertising and I appreciate that I have had the machine for 3 months.  Thanks all

You have accepted the £30 compensation so Argos probably see this as case closed.

I am also confused as to how the machine would (or would not) be able to make latte.
AIUI, the bean to cup machines make espresso from the main machine.  Then there is a milk frother that sits to the side of the machine and the frothed milk is made separate from the espresso and then the two parts (espresso plus frothed milk) are poured into a cup to serve.

So, for latte, you make a large volume of frothed milk and pour into the cup and then pour the espresso half on top.

For cappuccino, you make a smaller volume of frothed milk and pour into the cup on top of the espresso.

For Flat White, you make the espresso and then pour in a small volume of non-frothed (but heated) milk.

Etc for whatever the other ten drinks are.

The machine makes espressos and also makes frothed milk.  The blending to create the different drinks is down to the selected proportions of both parts and the order they are added (which is on top).

The description might not be incorrect.

screech_78

Grumpy_chap said:

Sprice72 said:

I bought a Bean to Cup Coffee Machine, as trying to save money on all the Latte's I have been buying.  So I looked around and decided on a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos, as it had an in built milk frother and was a good price.  So I bought in November, had a little trouble setting up but finally got it working, albeit a few months later.  I read the product guide as well as looking at you-tube video's but I couldn't find out how to make a latte, so I messaged Argos and they came back and stated that oh sorry this machine does not make latte's, although within the product description it stated it made 10 different coffee options & that they would update the description.  I had a lot of things going on so it was awhile before I sent a message to Argos to ask for a refund/replacement & they said to go to DeLonghi as outside the 30 days.  So spoke to them & they said that it's not their issue as Argos have incorrectly described the product.  So I spoke to Argos again and I said that Delonghi would not give me a 'code' which Argos asked for me to get as it is Argos's error not theirs (I checked their website and this product does not make lattes & only has 4 options) at this point Argos's own website was still showing incorrect product info.  The 'chat' person said that they would get a manager to call me within 16 hours (did not happen).  So I phoned them instead of using the chat and said I wanted to make a complaint & explained. The lady said that she would speak to a Manager and came back and she asked what I wanted to do and said either a refund or exchange, however, she said speak to a Manager, so off she went.  I can't do a refund but I can offer an exchange, so a bit on the spot I had a look and all of the machines I liked were more expensive and not willing to pay and extra £100-£200 and the only other one I wasn't chancing that their product description was correct.  The other offer was just £30.00 compensation.  I was still not happy but said just give me the compensation but not happy as basically I have a machine that is not doing what I wanted based on Argos's product description.  I am planning on writing to Argos but just wanted to know what I could quote as in theory false advertising and I appreciate that I have had the machine for 3 months.  Thanks all

You have accepted the £30 compensation so Argos probably see this as case closed.

I am also confused as to how the machine would (or would not) be able to make latte.
AIUI, the bean to cup machines make espresso from the main machine.  Then there is a milk frother that sits to the side of the machine and the frothed milk is made separate from the espresso and then the two parts (espresso plus frothed milk) are poured into a cup to serve.

So, for latte, you make a large volume of frothed milk and pour into the cup and then pour the espresso half on top.

For cappuccino, you make a smaller volume of frothed milk and pour into the cup on top of the espresso.

For Flat White, you make the espresso and then pour in a small volume of non-frothed (but heated) milk.

Etc for whatever the other ten drinks are.

The machine makes espressos and also makes frothed milk.  The blending to create the different drinks is down to the selected proportions of both parts and the order they are added (which is on top).

The description might not be incorrect.

Also completely stumped. A latte can be made from any machine. I used to make lattes warming milk in my microwave and mixing some Nescafé espresso instant coffee with a little water! 

A latte is simply a drink that has a higher milk ratio to espresso. 

I think you’re lucky with the £30 as there’s nothing mis-described about the machine. 

DullGreyGuy

Grumpy_chap said:

Sprice72 said:

I bought a Bean to Cup Coffee Machine, as trying to save money on all the Latte's I have been buying.  So I looked around and decided on a DeLonghi Magnifica from Argos, as it had an in built milk frother and was a good price.  So I bought in November, had a little trouble setting up but finally got it working, albeit a few months later.  I read the product guide as well as looking at you-tube video's but I couldn't find out how to make a latte, so I messaged Argos and they came back and stated that oh sorry this machine does not make latte's, although within the product description it stated it made 10 different coffee options & that they would update the description.  I had a lot of things going on so it was awhile before I sent a message to Argos to ask for a refund/replacement & they said to go to DeLonghi as outside the 30 days.  So spoke to them & they said that it's not their issue as Argos have incorrectly described the product.  So I spoke to Argos again and I said that Delonghi would not give me a 'code' which Argos asked for me to get as it is Argos's error not theirs (I checked their website and this product does not make lattes & only has 4 options) at this point Argos's own website was still showing incorrect product info.  The 'chat' person said that they would get a manager to call me within 16 hours (did not happen).  So I phoned them instead of using the chat and said I wanted to make a complaint & explained. The lady said that she would speak to a Manager and came back and she asked what I wanted to do and said either a refund or exchange, however, she said speak to a Manager, so off she went.  I can't do a refund but I can offer an exchange, so a bit on the spot I had a look and all of the machines I liked were more expensive and not willing to pay and extra £100-£200 and the only other one I wasn't chancing that their product description was correct.  The other offer was just £30.00 compensation.  I was still not happy but said just give me the compensation but not happy as basically I have a machine that is not doing what I wanted based on Argos's product description.  I am planning on writing to Argos but just wanted to know what I could quote as in theory false advertising and I appreciate that I have had the machine for 3 months.  Thanks all

You have accepted the £30 compensation so Argos probably see this as case closed.

I am also confused as to how the machine would (or would not) be able to make latte.
AIUI, the bean to cup machines make espresso from the main machine.  Then there is a milk frother that sits to the side of the machine and the frothed milk is made separate from the espresso and then the two parts (espresso plus frothed milk) are poured into a cup to serve.

So, for latte, you make a large volume of frothed milk and pour into the cup and then pour the espresso half on top.

For cappuccino, you make a smaller volume of frothed milk and pour into the cup on top of the espresso.

For Flat White, you make the espresso and then pour in a small volume of non-frothed (but heated) milk.

Etc for whatever the other ten drinks are.

The machine makes espressos and also makes frothed milk.  The blending to create the different drinks is down to the selected proportions of both parts and the order they are added (which is on top).

The description might not be incorrect.

There seems to be 2 different groups of machines and one outlier... most the cheaper machines are an expresso machines with a steam wand for doing milk yourself. Most the more expensive machines have a milk container to the side and it's a one button job to control coffee and milk and do a couple of milk options.

Then there is the outlier, guessing the one the OP has bought, which is in the price range of the steam wand options but has a milk container. Unlike the others though its only milk option is a cappuccino and it doesn't appear to have a wand to do anything else. 

Stupidly though they still call the milk container thing a "LatteCrema System" like the more expensive ones despite only being able to do cappuccino.

screech_78 said:

A latte is simply a drink that has a higher milk ratio to espresso. 

An expresso has no milk, a macchiato has a very small amount of milk (or milk foam), a latte has a lot of milk (3:1 typically)

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

DullGreyGuy said: it's a one button job to control coffee and milk and do a couple of milk options.

This is what I assumed otherwise OP would have been told by either Argos or DeLonghi that the machine does indeed make a latte.