Intestacy and Letters of Administration

Aristotle67

I am the friend of the son-in-law of a gentleman who has died intestate. The deceased has two sons. He also has three grandchildren from a daughter (wife of the son-in-law) who predeceased the deceased and thus would be entitled to the share of the estate that the daughter would have received. Thus there are five people who would be entitled to a part of the estate. I believe that this would normally mean shares of 1/3, 1/3, 1/9, 1/9 and 1/9.

The estate will consist of a house and contents, car, a current and some savings accounts. The value of the house alone could well exceed the threshold for inheritance tax of £325,000.  

The problem is, to put it in the kindest way possible, none of the deceased's family are capable of handling matters. The sons - who are in their fifties - don't have jobs and do not get on. One of them lived with their father, as did one of the grandchildren. The grandchildren are all in gainful employment, but none of them would would want to handle affairs. 

I was an academic lawyer in my previous life, though admittedly had little interest in family law. That said, I have written several wills for friends and family about which there has never been an issue. I was executor of my partner's estate (we never married) and, as such, went through the evaluation of the estate for HMRC and received a Grant of Probate fairly quickly, enabling me to execute her will swiftly and smoothly. The son-in-law mentioned above was my partner's brother, which is why he has approached me, as a favour.

If I was to offer myself up, I would not find myself on the hierarchal list of family who can apply for Letters of Administration. I believe it may be possible for the potential beneficiaries to apply for me to have Power of Attorney over their affairs to get around this, if they were all in agreement. 

As anyone reading this might have guessed, the sons have no money and of course cannot access their father's funds at present. The obvious solution is for them to engage a solicitor, but they don't like the thought - or more likely the cost - of this. Their strained relationship will not help.

I am always willing to help people out when I can, and if sorting out the estate was likely to be a straightforward and smooth process, I would do it as a favour, gratis, if I was eligible to do so. I am cautious, however, as I suspect that it is not likely to be trouble-free process. In addition, as I am not a relative, I wonder if I am too distant to be considered appropriate.

Any thoughts, advice, suggestions, criticsims etc will be gratefully received. 

Flugelhorn

the threshold for inheritance tax will be at least £500K and if he was widowed at the time of death could be £1 million

I would be tempted to say that you should stay a million miles away from being the admin on  this one - if there are family members living in the house then they will have no interest in cooperating with the process ie moving / helping with the sale etc and there could still be arguments 10 year on.

you could however help the daughter to do the forms etc 

YBR

I agree, with @Flugelhorn that there are red flags here - a property to be sold to enable a split that has family members living in, and beneficiaries who do not get on. I would steer clear, except perhaps to look over the forms before they are sent.

elsien

I’m not seeing getting power of attorney from two people who don’t get on and have no money, and who you are not actually direct friends with, is going to get very far.
Aside from anything else, how could you act fairly for each of the sons when their views and wishes maybe diametrically opposed.
Another vote for don’t get involved.
Nothing to prevent you from giving advice and doing the legwork for your friend’s wife if she wants to take on the role of administering the estate. 

RAS

The daughter who was the friend's wife is deceased so she can't administer the estate.

Usually admin would fall to one of the brothers/sons as the OP suggests. What's the non-resident's take on this?

 Is there any reason why one or more of the grandchildren can't do it? If the children are minors would the son in law be eligible?

Aristotle67

Thanks for the advice, everyone. It is much appreciated.

I will be steering clear of this one.

For starters, I see that I made a mistake right away. I know that when you leave your estate to direct descendants the inheritance tax threshold increases to £500k but thought that if the person died intestate that this direct descendants rule not apply. I also knew about the possibility of the deceased's widow's inheritance tax allowance being applicable (I assume that was what you meant, flugelhorn) but had not taken it into account.

Clearly, my understanding of matters is insufficient. 

The grandchildren don't really want to know and I have been given to understand their intention is to surrender any share they are entitled to in favour of the son who was living there. They are worried that he might end up without anywhere to live. He isn't responsible enough to be able to support himself without a lot of guidance. They grandchildren are not minors but would not be capable of following the process without a lot of help and support. I don't mind assisting them, but it isn't going to happen.

Since I posted I have learned that the son who is not living there removed the watch from the body of his deceased father on the grounds that "he was promised this". Of course, the watch is part of the estate and he had no business doing so. There is trouble immediately.

Thank you once again for the comments. A wide berth is going to be given. 

RAS

OK. A couple of things that the grandsons might need to understand.

1. If they want to renounce their shares, the least messy way is a deed of variation in favour of the resident grandson, which needs to be made within 2 years of their mum's death.

2. If either of them needs to apply for benefits, giving away an inheritance would probably be considered deprivation of assets. 

I'd suggest a joint meeting with a STEP solicitor to explore the first.

And a discussion with a benefits advisor to explore the second.

Aristotle67

Thanks, RAS

Regarding 1, I had come across the Deed of Variation/ Deed of Family Arrangement in my research but had realised it wasn't likely to be an option. Unfortunately the grandchildren lost their Mum to COVID back in 2021. 

I am sure meeting with a STEP solicitor would be appropriate and will pass on your recommendation.

I think the benefits issue will be pertinent and will also pass on your suggestion regarding this. Thank you again for these. 

Unfortunately the family have never taken the possibility of death seriously with a view to the future. The grandchildren's Mum died intestate and you might have thought that would serve as a warning. Over three years later her husband still hadn't informed the Land Registry of the change in ownership!

The deceased father/grandfather was in his eighties and couldn't go anywhere without an oxygen cylinder. One might have thought that for him a will would have been a priority. In fairness he had started one recently with the Co-op but it was never completed. I do try and explain that you are never too young to think about making a will. I know it is no help to point out that if a valid will had been made things would have been much easier. I hope this time the family do realise that making provision for your loved ones is important and should ensure your wishes are adhered to. 

Flugelhorn

Aristotle67 said:

Unfortunately the family have never taken the possibility of death seriously with a view to the future. The grandchildren's Mum died intestate and you might have thought that would serve as a warning. Over three years later her husband still hadn't informed the Land Registry of the change in ownership!

don't worry - my father died in the late 90s and by the time mother died 20 years later the house was still in both names. when I sold it under probate my solicitor wasn't at all concerned - I just gave her the probate for mother and the death cert for father and all was sorted. I think there are lots of deceased people still on LR and it all gets sorted out when the properties are sold

Aristotle67

Thanks, flugelhorn. I believe he has since changed it after I showed him how to do it. 

Aristotle67

Thank you again, everyone, for contributing. Much appreciated.

I have recommended to the sons and grandchildren that they get a STEP solicitor involved and have found one locally who may be suitable. I believe solicitor's fees come out of the estate. I estimate the value of the estate to be between £350000 and £400000 so have advised that they could expect fees to be around £5000 - £6000 at the upper end, depending on the complexity.

I am glad I am staying out of this for the most part. It is indeed going to get rather messy and complicated. 

The latest development, for want of a better word, is that the son who lives there would want to release equity from his 33% share of the property as otherwise he has no money to live on. He was laid off about fifteen years ago and has not worked since. He does not received benefits as he refused to be retrained and attend courses. He essentially sat at home playing on xbox and playstation and his father supported him. Of course, having died intestate, the father has not left the son any access to funds. 

I am not sure if equity release would even be possible as the property would be in co-ownership; but even if it is I don't like the sound of it. The amount owed under equity release can grow and grow; most people I know who have released equity have, ultimately, wished they hadn't. It is something to be considered very, very carefully. The family are not against this happening so that the resident son can continue to have a home and some money on which to live, but there will surely be better options. An obvious one would be for the property to be sold and the proceeds divided according to the rules on intestacy. The resident son could then find somewhere else to live with his share. I am not sure that is acceptable.....but it might be advisable. 

As I say I am glad I am not getting overly involved. My sympathies have waned ever so slightly. The STEP solicitor can have fun trying to sort this out. My only involvement may be to act as a go between for the family with the solicitor, if that is acceptable. The family would prefer me to deal with the solicitor. I would prefer it to be them. We'll see what ensues. 

Thank you once more for those who took time to post and advise.