Can we legally sell parents house.

pothole70

While showing an estate agent around my in-laws house, he said we may not have the legal right to sell it.

My father in law passed away in 2016 my mother-in-law had signs of dementia and did not leave the house so my wife obtain probate for her as her father left no will. Her Dementia got worse and she went into a home in 2019, we then got a court of protection order to make decisions on a finances and property overseen by the OPG. She passed away In 2022, my wife obtain the letter of administration for her estate.

We were told by my mother-in-law at the time my father-in-law passed away that the house was in both their names. When she passed, we had to clear the house and could not find any deeds to the property which they had lived in since 1955, and it was not on the land register. Clearing out the loft, we found an old suitcase and the deeds were inside, probably put there by my father-in-law for protection. On inspection of the deeds we found, that only his name was on them and not my mother in laws.

We were told by the estate agent that there may be a problem selling because the house was not registered at the land register, and we only have administration for my mother in laws estate and her name is not on the deeds.

We don’t want to put it up for sale find a buyer, then find out we do not have the right to sell the house.

Thanks for any advice you have to offer.

david29dpo

Having a house not registered with LR is not a major problem to a buyers solicitor as long as you have the old paper deeds, which you do.
The agent is an idiot.
Was the house left to your MIL?

penners324

The house passed automatically to the mother in law (assuming they married) on father in laws death.

Agent is talking nonsense 

Green_hopeful

Keep the deeds, all of them, really safe. You will need the ones before the sale to your father in law to prove the previous people had the right to sell it. Then when you sell you need to give all the deeds to your solicitors. I would go to a high street solicitor rather than a cheap online solicitor because dealing with unregistered land is a bit unusual now. You want someone who knows what they are doing rather than a call handler. 

Olinda99

You could also take the deeds to a solicitor and ask them to register the house i.e a first registration

This would cost you a bit of money to do of course but the upside is that if there are any problems in registration you should find out sooner rather than once a house sell has progressed

There may be something I haven't thought of that would make this inadvisable but if so someone on here will probably tell you

Bookworm105

 father was sole owner and died intestate 
your comment appears to be assuming law of survivorship flowing from a Joint Tenancy, that is irrelevant in this case.

who got what out of father's estate is based on the value of father's estate at date of death. The fact the spouse lived in the property is irrelevant.
We assume mother and father were legally married, so her entitlement under intestacy was to a fixed sum of money ("statutory legacy") plus all father's personal possessions and then 50% of the remaining value of the estate if the estate was more than the fixed amount. Any children then get the other 50% of the estate if it was above the threshold  (or nothing if it was below).

as the death was in 2016 it is impossible to now do a 'deed of family arrangement" as that has to occur within 2 years of death. 

the statutory legacy amount in 2016 was £250,000

pedantically therefore value of father's estate must be confirmed and exact accounting is needed of how it was distributed. Mother may well be sole owner of the property by virtue of it forming part of her monetary share, but if a high property value, the children may (technically) be owed a monetary sum that they never got because the estate's money was locked up in the house and was not available to be paid in cash. If the latter applies, then technically the children would be legal co-owners of the property from date of father's death 

Bottom line is the children are now the sole owners of the property by virtue of inheritance from one or both parents.

Keep_pedalling

penners324 said:

The house passed automatically to the mother in law (assuming they married) on father in laws death.

Agent is talking nonsense 

No they are not, even if everything went to his wife either through his will or the laws of intestacy (not everything goes to a spouse on larger intestate estates) the OP and their spouse will now have to obtain probate / letters of administration for FIL’s estate in order to sell the house. Because the death occurred before 1st Jan 2020 they will also need to submit an IHT return even if there is no IHT due. 

I would strongly recomend not employing solicitors to do this as it will involve unnecessary expense and delay. If you need any help and guidance on this ask over on the deaths, funerals and probate board where you will receive lots of good advice. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/deaths-funerals-probate

EssexHebridean

Don’t listen to Estate Agents when it comes to legal advice - they are not qualified in ANY way shape or form to provide this, as much as they might try to pretend otherwise. Let the agent do what they do - taking a few crap pictures, shoving the property on Rightmove, then sitting back and pocketing a fat commission when it sells. For the legal stuff, talk to a solicitor. 

Keep_pedalling

EssexHebridean said:

Don’t listen to Estate Agents when it comes to legal advice - they are not qualified in ANY way shape or form to provide this, as much as they might try to pretend otherwise. Let the agent do what they do - taking a few crap pictures, shoving the property on Rightmove, then sitting back and pocketing a fat commission when it sells. For the legal stuff, talk to a solicitor. 

While that is generally true, in this case they are correct nothing can move without probate / letters of administration for FIL. 

p00hsticks

penners324 said:

The house passed automatically to the mother in law (assuming they married) on father in laws death.

Wouldn't that depend on the value of the estate? Under the English / Welsh laws of intestacy I believe that anything above a certain amount (£250k ? - which is inherited by any spouse) should then be split between the spouse and children.

EssexHebridean

 Keep_pedalling said:

EssexHebridean said:

Don’t listen to Estate Agents when it comes to legal advice - they are not qualified in ANY way shape or form to provide this, as much as they might try to pretend otherwise. Let the agent do what they do - taking a few crap pictures, shoving the property on Rightmove, then sitting back and pocketing a fat commission when it sells. For the legal stuff, talk to a solicitor. 

While that is generally true, in this case they are correct nothing can move without probate / letters of administration for FIL. 

Agreed - my post was intended more generally. However, it sounds as though agent has the right answer but from the root of the wrong reasons - the lack of registration is entirely irrelevant others have said, and this is far from the first time we’ve heard of agents causing a panic over unregistered properties! 

In fairness, as there are now so few remaining unregistered places, even some solicitors now get anxious about dealing with these - I suspect there are relatively few of us post-completions admins who still remember how exactly to do an FR1 application! (I’ve only seen one since covid as far as I can think!)  As a result, even some solicitors refuse to deal with a property that isn’t registered, insisting that thr seller deals with it prior to completion - a completely unnecessary complication in nearly all cases.