Transferring property to Beneficiary

fiddle290

I am getting very confused regarding transfer of property to a beneficiary, some of which I followed from Land Registry.

I'll try to make is a less confusing as possible.

1. My friend died in 2023 leaving a property she inherited from her mother in 2013 to a family member.  I filled in AS1 providing all the necessary information but then realised the property has never been registered (AS1 does state you don't need Deed information).   Along with my friends Will, Probate and Death Cert, I included her Mothers will showing the property being left to my friend and probate letter.  My friend never sold the property just continued to let friends stay in it.

2.  After this being rejected I was informed by Land Registry to lodge a First Time Registration using FR1 form.  This is where it all turns with Land Registry saying it doesn't show how the Beneficiary is getting the property despite providing a full paper trail.  They have said "the documentation stops at the probate (friends fathers name).  At the moment Land Registry can complete registration with (friends mother name)  entered as executor of (friends fathers name) deceased.
If the property is to be vested to (beneficiary) then you must submit the specific forms that lead to the legal estate being vested in to the name of the said (beneficiary). The information youhave provided does not do that.

3.  So what else can I do - they have FR1, AS1, wills, probates.  I do not know what else I can do.

Any advice would be great.

Thanks.

p00hsticks

Calling @Land_Registry

Query for the OP ; as you say the property is not registered, have you obtained the deeds to the property and if so do the Land Registry have them ?

JGB1955

Did ' friends father's'  will leave the property to 'friends mother'?  That seems to be the missing link.

fiddle290

When I did a land search there was no Deed number, however, when I filled in FR1 Land Registry they 'found' Title Deeds lodged in 1978 by friends Father.  After his death the property was left to his wife but never registered.  Then in 2013 she then left it to my friend.  There are wills, probate, death certs to show full trail and how it has been passed own.  Sorry it's all confusing.

Tiglet2

fiddle290 said:

When I did a land search there was no Deed number, however, when I filled in FR1 Land Registry they 'found' Title Deeds lodged in 1978 by friends Father.  After his death the property was left to his wife but never registered.  Then in 2013 she then left it to my friend.  There are wills, probate, death certs to show full trail and how it has been passed own.  Sorry it's all confusing.

Sounds like Land Registry are asking for evidence linking the transfer of the property from 'friends Father' to Father's wife.  Alongside the FR1 is the form DL (Document List), where there should be linked evidence detailing the transfers between each owner - any gaps in the document list will be queried.

fiddle290

There are no gaps - Father's will gives property to wife (she was granted probate) - will, probate, death cert where submitted showing this.  Next Wife (Mother) gives property to daughter who was granted probate - all documents again submitted showing this.  Next Daughter  left property to cousin - on this I gave copy of her will, probate granted to me and death cert.  That;s the chain and I am at a loss what else they require.  So LR have 3 wills, 3 probates, 3 death certificate and all showing how the property went from father to wife to daughter to cousin.

user1977

Isn't it the assent which is missing? The Will isn't enough by itself - the executor gets probate and then has to transfer the property from the estate to the beneficiary. So friend's mum (as executor) to herself (as an individual)?

fiddle290

I found an Assent dated 18th march 1997 (mother).  Daughter did not transfer property into her name (and can't now as she's dead).  As property wasn't registered I've done an FR1 and also AS1 which is the Assent that I as Executor have to do.  

Land_Registry

The legal ownership stays with the deceased owner's estate until it is dealt with, namely transferred. 
Leaving it to someone or inheriting is not enough to transfer the legal ownership. Your paper trail shows who died and who left what to whom and who inherited. What it doesn't do is transfer the legal ownership from the deceased's Father's estate and as a result it stays there until it is actually transferred by the appropriate executor. When he died his executor could/should have transferred it to whoever the beneficiary was.
So roll forward and you now want to transfer the property to a (later) beneficiary. That transfer will trigger first registration so forms FR1 and DL will be required plus the original deeds
In cases where a sole owner dies, probate is granted, the executor dies, and probate is granted you can create what is known as a 'chain of representation'. You refer to having probates but do you have such a chain?
If you do then the final executor can transfer the legal ownership to the current beneficiary using form AS1 but you need to prove that 'chain' by producing certified copies of each probate.
For example if A owned the property and dies; probate granted to B; B then dies and probate for B is granted to C. C now wants to transfer the ownership to D - your chain is probates for A and B

fiddle290

Land_Registry said:

The legal ownership stays with the deceased owner's estate until it is dealt with, namely transferred. 
Leaving it to someone or inheriting is not enough to transfer the legal ownership. Your paper trail shows who died and who left what to whom and who inherited. What it doesn't do is transfer the legal ownership from the deceased's Father's estate and as a result it stays there until it is actually transferred by the appropriate executor. When he died his executor could/should have transferred it to whoever the beneficiary was.
So roll forward and you now want to transfer the property to a (later) beneficiary. That transfer will trigger first registration so forms FR1 and DL will be required plus the original deeds
In cases where a sole owner dies, probate is granted, the executor dies, and probate is granted you can create what is known as a 'chain of representation'. You refer to having probates but do you have such a chain?
If you do then the final executor can transfer the legal ownership to the current beneficiary using form AS1 but you need to prove that 'chain' by producing certified copies of each probate.
For example if A owned the property and dies; probate granted to B; B then dies and probate for B is granted to C. C now wants to transfer the ownership to D - your chain is probates for A and B

If I am understanding you correctly I have to produce the probates from A-C which I have, all original showing it passed from father to mother to daughter and now trying to pass this to cousin.  Is that correct?  If so, Land Registry have been given all.

Land_Registry

fiddle290 said:

Land_Registry said:

The legal ownership stays with the deceased owner's estate until it is dealt with, namely transferred. 
Leaving it to someone or inheriting is not enough to transfer the legal ownership. Your paper trail shows who died and who left what to whom and who inherited. What it doesn't do is transfer the legal ownership from the deceased's Father's estate and as a result it stays there until it is actually transferred by the appropriate executor. When he died his executor could/should have transferred it to whoever the beneficiary was.
So roll forward and you now want to transfer the property to a (later) beneficiary. That transfer will trigger first registration so forms FR1 and DL will be required plus the original deeds
In cases where a sole owner dies, probate is granted, the executor dies, and probate is granted you can create what is known as a 'chain of representation'. You refer to having probates but do you have such a chain?
If you do then the final executor can transfer the legal ownership to the current beneficiary using form AS1 but you need to prove that 'chain' by producing certified copies of each probate.
For example if A owned the property and dies; probate granted to B; B then dies and probate for B is granted to C. C now wants to transfer the ownership to D - your chain is probates for A and B

If I am understanding you correctly I have to produce the probates from A-C which I have, all original showing it passed from father to mother to daughter and now trying to pass this to cousin.  Is that correct?  If so, Land Registry have been given all.

If you can prove a chain of representation has bene created then that can be acceptable for registration purposes. You don't need a separate transfer by each executor to a beneficiary for example.
You have made an application and received a specific response from us so you should be guided by that response as my colleagues will be aware of the specifics involved and what you have lodged to date.
You can research a 'chain of representation' online and confirm for yourself if you have achieved same - IHTM05114 - Exceptions where no grant is needed: chain of representation (England, Wales and Northern Ireland) - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK