Neighbour's planning application for new build requires underpinning of my wall!

BunnyBurrow

Thank you everyone for your very helpful comments. I still plan to object, but in case it does get approved...

Does anyone have a feel for how much I could expect to be compensated by them if they were to use my/our wall? A ballpark figure or percentage of current value? 

ThisIsWeird

BunnyBurrow said:

Thank you everyone for your very helpful comments. I still plan to object, but in case it does get approved...

Does anyone have a feel for how much I could expect to be compensated by them if they were to use my/our wall? A ballpark figure or percentage of current value? 

No idea, sorry. 

The situation would appear to be that your new neighbour cannot build on to your wall - rendering it a party-wall - without your permission. And, you are currently assuming that - should you refuse this permission - their resulting plot will be too narrow to gain PP. But, since you are in a high-value area, that unfortunately cannot be assumed; London is full of quirky buildings.

It is also the case that the lesser of two evils - for you - is likely to be that they do build on to your property, if the alternative is for them to build detached, leaving an unserviceable gap alongside your house.

So, by all means put in an objection on every valid ground you have, and indicate you are minded to refuse permission for them to 'join', but be ready to negotiate should P still be granted.

For your neighbour, it will mean - roughly - 250mm extra internal width (a skin of ext wall, insulation, and the required external gap). For such a narrow plot, that might well be quite significant, and worth their while to sweeten the deal with you.

As for the negatives for you, I really don't know - now that you've mentioned where you are. The big ol' smoke is quirky, and it's largely the house itself that carries the main value - as well as location, of course - and perhaps not so much what is attached to your side.

Not sure who the best person to advise on value is - surveyor, or EA?

dander

In your position I would make it very clear in my planning objection that no-one has contacted you or requested permission to underpin your wall or build attached to your wall. State that you have not and will not give consent for them to do so. I think it would be very difficult for them to grant PP to build a property that you have the legal right to make impossible.

Beeblebr0x

We have a four inch gap between us and the neighbours. Both walls are brick faced and nothing much by way of the elements gets in that narrow gap.

Section62

BunnyBurrow said:

Thank you everyone for your very helpful comments. I still plan to object, but in case it does get approved...

Does anyone have a feel for how much I could expect to be compensated by them if they were to use my/our wall? A ballpark figure or percentage of current value? 

I think I'd go back to my advice to start a conversation with a party wall surveyor.  Ideally one with local experience as there are London Building Acts, London County Council Acts, and Greater London Council Acts which can vary the rules on building - one of these may give the neighbouring landowners more rights than national legislation, but you'd need an expert to confirm that either way.

I think the situation may be slightly more complicated than we might be assuming here, as [1] the land is already built on (and their structure (previously?) had some degree of attachment to yours) and [2] it is likely part of your foundations are under the neighbour's land.

You can legally build your foundations under the neighbour's property, but I'm not sure you then have the right to object (outright) to them doing their own work which includes altering those foundations.

In terms of objecting to the planning application I would go easy on any threats not to cooperate.  At least not until you have some advice from a PWS.  It probably won't make much difference to the planning decision.  You can get planning consent for land you don't own, even if the owner of the land objects and says they won't sell to you.  And as discussed upthread the planning decision in this case is probably not going to hinge on a couple of inches (being the difference between being attached or not)

ThorOdinson

Beeblebr0x said:

We have a four inch gap between us and the neighbours. Both walls are brick faced and nothing much by way of the elements gets in that narrow gap.

What will you do if the wall needs maintenance like repointing?

Beeblebr0x

Cavity walls. As I said, not much gets between the two walls, otherwise planning consent would've been an issue.

snarffie

The proposed layout relies to some degree on sharing the party wall, because it’s already super-tight in there.  I especially love the ground floor study, which is about the same size as the tiny adjacent toilet   Still, that's London for ya!

Anyway, my point is that *if* the developer can’t get permission to attach to your property, they would have to allow space for their own external wall (instead of sharing your wall), and may lose a pretty significant 200-300mm along the entire length of their building.  I’m sure this could be accommodated with an internal redesign, but it will be another set of compromises (finding space for two more steps/reducing the floor to ceiling height, for example) - and this is an already compromised plan with very little breathing space.  All of this could give you some handy leverage for extracting additional cash from the developer.  

One final point. If the developer is bl00dy minded enough to go down the route of building their own wall with a gap between them and you, I’d consider having a back-out plan because a party wall is more desirable than an unserviceable gap in my view.

Nice street by the way (crummy garage though)!

AskAsk

BunnyBurrow said:

Thank you everyone for your very helpful comments. I still plan to object, but in case it does get approved...

Does anyone have a feel for how much I could expect to be compensated by them if they were to use my/our wall? A ballpark figure or percentage of current value? 

you won't be entitled to compensation.  they have the right to build on their land, subject to planning permission.  they would need to build their own wall and not rely on your wall for support.

they don't need your wall as they can build their own but if they want to maximise space, they may make you an offer to allow them to use your wall so they wouldn't need a new one on that side.

that would be subject to negotiation between you and them if that offer comes your way, you could ask a surveyor, possibly not the party wall surveyor, but a quantity surveyor, to assess how much it would save the owners of the land by not having to build their own wall and get more space as a result.  then that figure could give you an idea of how much to negotiate.

when the neighbours built up to my wall, they never asked if i would be interested in letting them use the wall for support because they preferred to build their own support rather than use an old wall.

AskAsk

Beeblebr0x said:

We have a four inch gap between us and the neighbours. Both walls are brick faced and nothing much by way of the elements gets in that narrow gap.

on my two properties where this happened, they build right up to my wall and then flashing is put at the top to protect anything going through the small gap between the two walls.  it means they become like a shared wall so there is no maintenance where the two meet.  there should not be any gap between them as this is better for maintenance and external view.